dangerous electrical work - what recourse?

Prudent

I have recently had a new kitchen fitted by a local joiner. I was not happy with a number of things in the kitchen, but when I raised them with the joiner he always had a reason. Although I wasn't too happy with the kitchen, I didn't make as much fuss as I might have done as the joiner is my partner's best friend (partner has his own house). The joiner used a plumber and an electricians who are friends (doing 'homers') to do the gas, plumbing and electrics

When another builder came to measure up for tiling he refused to tile it, saying there were several safety issues plus some very shoddy workmanship e.g. sockets were all at different heights, joinery work very poor. He very kindly spent two hours checking the kitchen for me at no charge and found 35 things that needed rectifying. Some like the five ring hob being overhung by units represented serious fire risks.

I phoned the joiner back and he has addressed some of the issues and is refusing to do a fair number. The thing that concerns me most is that there are still live wires under units, including one beside a washing machine. The electrician came in last week when I was out and they claim this is fixed - but it hasn't been touched. What recourse do I have?

I paid cash in good faith as it is a respectable local company.

ailuro2

what would he say to your partner when you get zapped by a live wire touching the washing machine, then you unwittingly touch it? That's what earthing is for...

What would your partner do to him?

Get him back, and tell him you'll get trading standards involved if he doesn't fix it (and of course the inland revenue would be very happy to check his books to see if all your payments went through their books!!);)

CKdesigner

Hi, I would agree with everything Saintlee has said. It really upsets me to think that these companies/individuals rip people off like this especially when you are 'friends'. Being in the kitchen industry myself as an independent studio I think this sort of misconduct reflects badly on all of us.

Give the joiner this list of problems. If he is any good he should be extremely embarrassed and do everything possible to put them right, but I suspect he won't as he probably would not have left the job like this in the first place.

Good luck.

The_Pedant

As Saintlee points out, all electrical & gas work requires certification. I would therefore be very concerned if anything was left in a dangerous state.

If new sockets etc have been put in, or other changes made to the mains circuits in the kitchen, then it is a legal requirement that a 'Part P' certificate is provided for any electrical work undertaken. This essentially certifies that the work was carried out by a competent person (qualified, and a member of one of the certifying organisations), according to all the current electrical & building control regulations.

If they are unable to issue these (as they are not certified for Part P) then, as I understand it then the building control office must be notified of changes prior to starting work and can then insist on an inspection (chargeable) by a competent person to certify the work.

When it comes to selling a house, lack of such documentation can cause problems and may lead to a need for additional indemnity insurance etc.

As advised, make sure you obtain the relevant paperwork.

Prudent

Thank you so much everyone

I didn't get any certification. At least one of the double sockets was definately unsafe as it was installed directly behind the hob. When I boiled vegetables the steam went in causing the electrics to trip.

I did type up a list of the 35 points and gave it to the joiner - and was very polite about it. Only about half have been addressed. Despite further requests that he addresses the other points. Some key safety points were dealt with - including the replacement of the hob and moving the socket behind it. The joiner did say to my partner he would send a bill for the new hob, but I shall be writing back explaining clearly why it will not be paid.

If I notify building control, who will foot the bill for the electrical certificate? I had a few quotes for the kitchen and paid this joiner the full going rate. I wasn't looking for a favour - which has left me very angry about the botched job.

I know the builder who helped me with the list could repair the kitchen to a high and safe standard. He has fitted a superb bathroom for me. However his quote for this work is about £800. I had saved for five years to replace the kitchen and bathroom and would struggle to meet any more costs.

saintlee

Prudent wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone

I didn't get any certification. At least one of the double sockets was definately unsafe as it was installed directly behind the hob. When I boiled vegetables the steam went in causing the electrics to trip.

I did type up a list of the 35 points and gave it to the joiner - and was very polite about it. Only about half have been addressed. Despite further requests that he addresses the other points. Some key safety points were dealt with - including the replacement of the hob and moving the socket behind it. The joiner did say to my partner he would send a bill for the new hob, but I shall be writing back explaining clearly why it will not be paid.

If I notify building control, who will foot the bill for the electrical certificate? I had a few quotes for the kitchen and paid this joiner the full going rate. I wasn't looking for a favour - which has left me very angry about the botched job.

I know the builder who helped me with the list could repair the kitchen to a high and safe standard. He has fitted a superb bathroom for me. However his quote for this work is about £800. I had saved for five years to replace the kitchen and bathroom and would struggle to meet any more costs.

I would ask the joiner that you are still waiting for your gas and electric certificates and see what he says.

If he says you don't need one, point out that it is a legal requirement, you will find a form supplied with your gas hob instructions that should be filled in by the qualified installer, you invalidate your warranty without it.

If any electrical work or gas pipe has been altered (and a gas hob fitted) it requires Corgi (now Capita) commisioning by law (Niceic for electrical)

baldelectrician

The_Pedant wrote: »

As Saintlee points out, all electrical & gas work requires certification. I would therefore be very concerned if anything was left in a dangerous state.

If new sockets etc have been put in, or other changes made to the mains circuits in the kitchen, then it is a legal requirement that a 'Part P' certificate is provided for any electrical work undertaken. This essentially certifies that the work was carried out by a competent person (qualified, and a member of one of the certifying organisations), according to all the current electrical & building control regulations.

If they are unable to issue these (as they are not certified for Part P) then, as I understand it then the building control office must be notified of changes prior to starting work and can then insist on an inspection (chargeable) by a competent person to certify the work.

When it comes to selling a house, lack of such documentation can cause problems and may lead to a need for additional indemnity insurance etc.

As advised, make sure you obtain the relevant paperwork.

There is no Part P in Scotland, so building standards will probably not be concerned (I am assuming you had no structural or other major alteration works carried out )

There should be a BS7671 cert for the electrics (not a specifically a NICIEC cert - the IEE write the wiring regs, the NICIEC just think they do )

There should be a gas cert in any instance,

Take advice (your home insurance may have home legal cover), trading standards may be able to help.

You need to notify the person who carried out the work the issues, giving them a defined time period to sort it out (usually 7 days).
Find out if they are a member of a trade organisation - Electricians in Scotland may be in SELECT - there may be advice on the electrics from them anyway.

I had a client ask me for a quote for a kitchen last week- only a couple of sockets I was told. Turned out to be about 13-15 items including gas and water bonding. All in £400-£450 including paperwork etc. The cooker connection had been taped up behind the worktop, there were quite a few other 'issues' with the electrics. Would have been at least a full days work + materials, including adding new power circuits for the kitchen. The joiner 'knew' someone who 'just did only what was needed'.

You pays your money you takes your choice.

The gas work has more bite as the installer may be breaking the law if he is ot registered- gas engineers who work for companies can now register to sign off work in their own name

Prudent

I really appreciate all the good advice, thank you so much. The gas pipe was moved across the kitchen, requiring them to dig a channel through the concrete floor so it sounds like this definately needs a certificate. I feel a bit uncomfortable in asking for it though as the gas fitter was a nice guy who went out of his way to restart my ancient boiler after the work. In fairness he also alerted me to his doubts over the safety of the hob - but the joiner totally disagreed.

I was assured by the joiner that the electrician did work to a very high standard. His regular job is with a fairly big local electrical company. The electrical work did uncover unexpected problems behind a unit - and I paid a further £200 on the original quote because I wanted to ensure the house was safe (how ironic!). I have never stinted on the cost of the kitchen. New work was done - including three new double socket and the electrics for an oven which was also moved across the kitchen.

Both the electrician and the gas man work for reputable companies in the day and I assumed they were therefore suitably qualified. I shall write to the joiner asking for the relevant certificates and phone trading standards to get some advice.

saintlee

Prudent wrote: »

I really appreciate all the good advice, thank you so much. The gas pipe was moved across the kitchen, requiring them to dig a channel through the concrete floor so it sounds like this definately needs a certificate. I feel a bit uncomfortable in asking for it though as the gas fitter was a nice guy who went out of his way to restart my ancient boiler after the work. In fairness he also alerted me to his doubts over the safety of the hob - but the joiner totally disagreed.

I was assured by the joiner that the electrician did work to a very high standard. His regular job is with a fairly big local electrical company. The electrical work did uncover unexpected problems behind a unit - and I paid a further £200 on the original quote because I wanted to ensure the house was safe (how ironic!). I have never stinted on the cost of the kitchen. New work was done - including three new double socket and the electrics for an oven which was also moved across the kitchen.

Both the electrician and the gas man work for reputable companies in the day and I assumed they were therefore suitably qualified. I shall write to the joiner asking for the relevant certificates and phone trading standards to get some advice.

If the gas man had concerns over the safety of the hob, then you really need to be listening to his advice and not the advice of a carpenter.

It sounds like your gas man who moved the pipes will have no problem issuing a certificate for you as he sounds responsible, and it is his legal requirement to do so.

With all due respect, you have paid for a service, so don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings, and don't let any of them take advantage of your good nature.

(for some reason my original post has been deleted, a bit annoying when you are genuinely trying to help people with good advice, but hey ho.)

Clive_Woody

I am not sure if it is trading standards or consumer direct who would be best to contact in this instance. I have previously had help from consumer direct and I suspect they would be a good first place to call.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/