Selling house for nursing home fees

sloughflint

DiggerUK wrote: »

MRY,
I don't know the answer to sloughflint's question in post #17. If it is classed as a gift I would see it as reducing over time. (7 years?)
The share of the TIC would then pass to the estate of the other TIC.
In our case we have each willed our share of TIC equally to our children, with conditions that OH has exclusive occupancy rights.
As we did all this some time back, get up to date information.
The wealthy had been using TIC to avoid IHT on property for years, that's because the property is seen as unmarketable and of no value.

This link gives a bit more info.
http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.co.uk/care_fees_mitigation.htm

I don't know anything about this firm. Not spamming.
Go to C.A.B. and ask them.

Hope this helps.

So sorry to keep appearing negative but I think the 7 years you are thinking about is for IHT.
There is no time limit as far as I can tell for deprivation of assets.

margaretclare

A neighbour has done that. His mum went into a home, he got the builders in..new bathroom/ kitchen/carpets and is renting it out. I always thought if you had property it must be sold?

The obvious reason for selling the property is to raise enough funds to pay the fees at the nursing home - also, the person living in a nursing home no longer needs own home to live in, and someone needs to be responsible for its upkeep, its safety etc.

If by renting the property out enough funds are realised to pay the fees, I can't see what's wrong with the idea. The nursing home will be happy as long as the fees keep rolling in!

Savvy_Sue

DiggerUK wrote: »

MRY,
I don't know the answer to sloughflint's question in post #17. If it is classed as a gift I would see it as reducing over time. (7 years?)
The share of the TIC would then pass to the estate of the other TIC.
In our case we have each willed our share of TIC equally to our children, with conditions that OH has exclusive occupancy rights.
As we did all this some time back, get up to date information.
The wealthy had been using TIC to avoid IHT on property for years, that's because the property is seen as unmarketable and of no value.

This link gives a bit more info.
http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.co.uk/care_fees_mitigation.htm

I don't know anything about this firm. Not spamming.
Go to C.A.B. and ask them.

Hope this helps.

Your link must be upsetting our spam filter for some reason. Those who want to look further could try googling care_fees_mitigation and consider why the missing words are in the spam filter.

MrsE, if your mum has some 'lucid' moments then it might be worth doing the PofA thing to protect yourselves. If the bank realise that mum has lost capacity to deal with her affairs, they may want to stop access to her bank account. And your sister might throw counter claims at you if you haven't taken steps to protect yourself. It also means you can do things on your mother's behalf which she might not be up to herself, eg terminating the tenancy, paying the care home etc.

jennybean_2

Hello everyone,
Please excuse me as I'm new to this site (and, perhaps somewhat oddly, for one my age, the whole forum/blogging concept), but I came across this thread and your discussions when doing a google search for information about a similar sort of problem I'm currently having - I'm 22, and currently live with my Mum and (maternal) Grandmother in a house that, though once fully my Grandmother's, has been in joint ownership between her and my Mum under Tenants In Common agreement for a while now. However, my Grandmother is 84 and her physical health is deteriorating - she still (to the best of our knowledge), "has all her marbles", but she has a form of Osteoporosis that has bent her spine severely… and it's growing worse each year - it now interferes with her breathing. The fear is that it will get so bad that it will soon not only affect her lungs, but the nerves in her spinal column, which may invariably lead to paralysis (this happened to a relative of a family friend). The worry is, of course, that she will need care at some point in the future as a result (because my Mum is nearly 60 and though retired, is herself not in good enough physical health to be able to cope with caring for my Grandmother, while I am of course at work and could not help).

If this happens, the worry is that the government will take any nursing fees out of my Grandmother’s house share, thus greatly reducing any inheritance that, (she is adamant) my older sister and I, (and to a lesser extent, my Mum), will receive after her death. It seems to me, therefore, that the best solution would indeed be to do what mry was considering and transfer the ownership of the house in its entirety to my Mum – seems sound, but having read your posts, I’m now worried that this would fall under “deliberate deprivation of assets” if it turned out that she DID indeed need a home? (Obviously, if that was the case, we WOULD indeed prefer the council to pay, if possible, because my Mum has not worked since my father died in 1998 and we’re none of us too flush! Fees would effectively ruin my Mum).


Additionally, even after all that, my Grandmother is still having trouble with the idea because, insistent that my sister and I inherit as much of her assets as possible, she's worried that if my Mum were to meet another man in the future, although my Mum is adamant she would not remarry because she would lose the benefits she currently receives as a result of my Dad's death (currently effectively her only source of income), in certain circumstances any such man could have access to half my Mum's (and consequently also my Grandmother's and therefore also potentially mine and my sister's) assets. Is there a way of making a legal provision for this type of situation, to ensure this does not happen?

I’d be so grateful if anyone has any insights and advice.
Thanks so much,

jennybean

EdInvestor

If your Mum is over 60 when your Gran needs care, then the council will disregard the property, so no need for any concern there.

As far as protecting your share, it may be best if Gran leaves her half of the property to you and your sister in her will. But (perhaps ironically) this should be done in trust, so as to protect your mother's right to live in the house in the event that you or your sister went bankrupt/got divorced etc as no sale could then be forced because of the trust.This would also protect your own rights to the assets eventually.

jennybean_2

Thanks so much for that advice - will of course have to "put it to the committee" (i.e. the mother and the grandmother!) but that's really helpful, and very much appreciated.

I wish I could get my head around all this more easily, though! It feels like there's a veritable minefield of financial problems, just waiting to catch you out, sometimes... So "keeping it simple" is a fantastic idea, thankyou!

jennybean

seven-day-weekend

In answer to the person who thought the house MUST be sold to pay the fees, the answer is NO.

The fees must be paid, yes. But if that can be done without selling the home, then that is perfectly OK. It doesn't matter where the funds come from.

It's just that many people can't afford the fees WITHOUT selling their home.

Renting it is a good option.

sloughflint

EdInvestor wrote: »

If your Mum is over 60 when your Gran needs care, then the council will disregard the property, so no need for any concern there.

Actually I'm not sure whether the mother's age matters here. She's a co-owner residing in the property.Assuming that she doesn't want to sell, this would make the grandmother's share of the property virtually worthless when it comes to any care home financial assessment.

EdInvestor

sloughflint wrote: »

. She's a co-owner residing in the property.Assuming that she doesn't want to sell, this would make the grandmother's share of the property virtually worthless when it comes to care home financial assessment.

What you say is true., but because of the mother's age the issue of the value of the share wouldn't even arise because the property would be disregarded from the start because of the mother's age.