Standing order not cancelled after request.

keasby

Hi all, first post, long time fan!

I'm hoping I can pick a few brains here. My partner and I recently opened a joint account with NatWest for bills etc. In one month we've had £152 of charges (whole other story funds overlapping etc.) so we cancelled some standing orders for the 11th. All well we thought until saturday when our cards declined (very embarrasing). Turns out although we cancelled online, including 2 working days (we're not counting Good Friday as a working day) the orders were never cancelled so we're 'pending' over the Easter weekend. Attitudes from NatWest varied from helpful to 'you can't blame us, this is your fault'. I phoned today again and was told they had pulled the standing orders back and that our money (over 100 pound credit) would be available immediately. Except it wasn't. Another awkward moment at the cash point and they now tell me that the money won't be there until the system updates in the middle of the night. That has left us without money for effectively 5 days.

My question then is what can I demand NatWest do? they have assured me that no charges will be raised but I feel they have rather let us down.

All thoughts and help are most welcome.

willo65

What date did you cancel them?

dunstonh

Standing orders have always taken at least two days to cancel. If the payment is due in the next two days then the bank can do a recall on the day they come out.

As that date fell over the weekend and bank holiday, the earmarking for the debit would have been against your account. However, the bank cannot recall it until the first working day back (today).

My question then is what can I demand NatWest do?

nothing. Natwest have done what every bank would have done and the only thing they could do.

they have assured me that no charges will be raised but I feel they have rather let us down.

There will be no charges as the contra entry clears the debit and you cant be charged for a stopped payment. However, they have not let you down. Indeed, had you read the warning about 2 days when you cancelled the direct debit online you would have been aware of this in advance. Natwest are not at fault for you not reading.

It took me 20 seconds to find what Natwest say and I have pasted it below:

Standing Orders
The cancellation notice has not changed as a result of the Faster Payments Service. To cancel Standing Orders you must give a minimum notice of three working days.

For example, if a payment is due to leave your account on a Friday; the final opportunity to cancel the mandate is by close of business on the Tuesday (three working days notice).

If you do not give sufficient notice to cancel a Standing Order it is your responsibility to request repayment from the beneficiary.

keasby

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the first post- I did allow 2 days to cancel. As for the three day quote you gave, I was told by NatWest that 2 days is their policy. I canceled Tuesday evening, leaving Wednesday and Thursday. The other issue is that their system did not register the cancellation, although my online banking said that they had been canceled.

keasby

dunstonh wrote: »

Indeed, had you read the warning about 2 days when you cancelled the direct debit online you would have been aware of this in advance. Natwest are not at fault for you not reading.
.

I was fully aware of the 2 day issue and there was no warning as you appear to insinuate. I followed their T&C's. why are you suggesting that I have done something wrong?

olly300

Read dunstonh's post carefully.

It states that Natwest need 3 working days notice not 2.

Apart from faster payments, other payments go through during working hours. (Each bank states when the payments go through.i.e. cheques deposited after 3.30pm don't start getting process until the next working day, online bill payments after 6pm don't start getting processed until the next working day.) This means like your first post stated you should have the money tomorrow.

keasby

granted but as stated, NatWest themselves said that 2 days are required, not 3. Either way, thanks for pointing out that Natwest's inefficiencies are my problem not theirs.

olly300

keasby wrote: »

granted but as stated, NatWest themselves said that 2 days are required, not 3. Either way, thanks for pointing out that Natwest's inefficiencies are my problem not theirs.

Unfortunately it's the same with all banks.

keasby

Ok an update.

I have now been told that there is no record of us canceling our standing orders (irrespective of days notice) at any point up to and including the date they were set to go out.

The bank say they have investigated and consider the matter closed but I can speak to the ombudsman.

My question is, where do I stand in what is essentially my word against theirs? I printed out a copy of the webpage showing my canceled orders but not until Saturday.

dunstonh

When it says 2 or 3 days it is working days. Not weekends or bank holidays. It is 2 days or three days depending on how you word it. 3 days including the payment day or 2 days before the payment day. Same thing.

However, thats not the issue now.

The bank say they have investigated and consider the matter closed but I can speak to the ombudsman.

That means they have treated it as a formal complaint and they believe they have done nothing wrong and its your error.

My question is, where do I stand in what is essentially my word against theirs?

It wont be your word against theirs. You will tell them the time and date you said you cancelled the SO and natwest will supply the FOS with an audit printout covering that period that will show no such activity took place on your account. Indeed, they could probably supply the FOS the date and times you logged in and what you did when you were online if they really wanted to.

I printed out a copy of the webpage showing my canceled orders but not until Saturday.

So, lets clarify this as its not clear now what is going on.

You say you cancelled them and have a print out that shows the standing order was cancelled, albeit a day or two after the event. Yet Natwest are saying that the standing orders have never been cancelled. Is that correct?

If that is what you are saying then you have strong evidence in your favour as you have a printout showing cancelled SOs. So, obviously they were cancelled. If Natwest say they were not they are not going to appear credible to an adjudicator with your evidence to hand.

Can you also clarify the dates as you said in the first post you cancelled on the 11th April. That was last Saturday. There has only been two working days since then. So you couldnt have cancelled more than 2 days before the payment was due. Also you posted yesterday and assuming you did cancel the standing order on Saturday and spoke with the bank yesterday, the bank was able to recall the payments yesterday (as it was the first working day after the long weekend) then there is no issue here for Natwest to answer.

I have to be honest and also say that I am really surprised you have been given a final close on your complaint already seeing as the earliest opportunity for you to raise a complaint was yesterday. The fact they were able to acknowledge your complaint, review it and post you a final outcome all within 24 hours doesnt seem very likely.

tavistock_2

dunstonh wrote: »

Standing orders have always taken at least two days to cancel. If the payment is due in the next two days then the bank can do a recall on the day they come out.

As that date fell over the weekend and bank holiday, the earmarking for the debit would have been against your account. However, the bank cannot recall it until the first working day back (today).



nothing. Natwest have done what every bank would have done and the only thing they could do.


There will be no charges as the contra entry clears the debit and you cant be charged for a stopped payment. However, they have not let you down. Indeed, had you read the warning about 2 days when you cancelled the direct debit online you would have been aware of this in advance. Natwest are not at fault for you not reading.

It took me 20 seconds to find what Natwest say and I have pasted it below:

Standing Orders
The cancellation notice has not changed as a result of the Faster Payments Service. To cancel Standing Orders you must give a minimum notice of three working days.

For example, if a payment is due to leave your account on a Friday; the final opportunity to cancel the mandate is by close of business on the Tuesday (three working days notice).

If you do not give sufficient notice to cancel a Standing Order it is your responsibility to request repayment from the beneficiary.

Can anyone he;lp me please cancelled direct debit, thought that loan had finished but still one payment to go.
but bank has charged me £35 for not having money in account, they say that people can still call for the direct debit evan if cancelled. so whats the good of cancellations!!!!