Teachers demand 10% pay rise

simongregson

I was using the RPI figure which has been higher over the period in question (with the exception of this year) due to it including higher mortgage costs up to the summer of last year.

Radiantsoul

BillTrac wrote: »

Oh, one other thing. I dont think that OFSTED should give ANY notice of a visit. I know they have reduced the notice time given, but how the hell are they ever going to see the real situation when they give warning and then all hands on deck to pretty up the site. And I know of certain kids who are "advised " to be off sick whenever OFSTED (or SATS) come around.

I think the purpose of Ofsted is not so much to test the quality of teaching, but to test the quality of the schools teacher testing procedures. In a sense it is more the relative levels than absolute that are being tested.

It is similiar to the way that auditors audit a companies accounts to an agreed schedule rather than swooping in to hunt down potential issues at the last minute

Really2

Radiantsoul wrote: »

They are right. It is relatively easy to find out what teachers earn. The salary bands are in the public domain. I don't see what more you could want? Perhaps every teacher to have their salary listed on the school website?

The point I was making is it is the lack of transparency when advertised causes the distrust. (local government nearly always now put scale and rate of pay)

Believe it or not not everybody can or will search the internet for that, they just believe it is a closed door.

Read through my posts you will then see what I have been saying.

as for the last bit why be so silly? I clearly said on advertising for jobs!

There is nothing to hide it would be good to let the general public know what teachers earn what is the problem.

It would most probably help the "public image" if people could see most jobs were under £35K.

Really2

simongregson wrote: »

I was using the RPI figure which has been higher over the period in question (with the exception of this year) due to it including higher mortgage costs up to the summer of last year.

I personally could not award teachers pay on RPI as they are government funded jobs.

CPI is the yard stick the government use for the country so I would see it as difficult to use RPI as the yard stick for public sector pay.
even though the private sector may use it, it is not the governments chosen method at the moment.

BillTrac

Radientsoul,

yes I get what you are saying, but as far as I know OFSTED are supposed to ensure that correct levels of teaching are undertaken. How can they do that when as soon as the visit date is given, all resources are targeted towards that visit, which to my mind does not reflect the true situation.

I only say that because the company I work for are given none or minimal notice of the audit visit, and ensures we comply all the time not in small slots

Really2

BillTrac wrote: »

Radientsoul,

yes I get what you are saying, but as far as I know OFSTED are supposed to ensure that correct levels of teaching are undertaken. How can they do that when as soon as the visit date is given, all resources are targeted towards that visit, which to my mind does not reflect the true situation.

I only say that because the company I work for are given none or minimal notice of the audit visit, and ensures we comply all the time not in small slots

I agree I can remember 20 years ago and the pressure was put on the students for impending ofsetd visit (even to the point of going over the lesson for that day in advance)

I can only imagine with a more "target" based system that as only got worse.

On the auditing thing I semi-agree but when the auditors come round you are not allowed to make things seem better than they are.;)

simongregson

Really2 wrote: »

It would most probably help the "public image" if people could see most jobs were under £35K.

I actually agree with this, the government always quotes £35k as a normal teaching salary whereas it only applies to those with 12 years experience.

The problem with printing the pay in advertisements is that for 'Main scale' teachers the pay they get is dependent on where they already are on the scale, so a new teacher would be applying at the bottom of the scale whereas an experienced teacher would be applying at the top. As an advert for teachers, it would be more effective just to print 'Main scale'

Radiantsoul

Well I am an accountant and generally auditors are looking to check that the normal month end controls are in place.

Making offset swop at random would fail for timing reasons imho. Each inspection has time to sample only a few teachers. They do this by reviewing the schools internal reviews then looking at the best and worst(and some at random) and seeing if the internal systems work. In reality to review each teacher adequately would require say 5 hours of observation and with writing up, etc each inspection would take months. In reality they only have a week.

I am sure OFSTED reports do cause a leap in effort, but presumably all teachers improve by a similiar amount.

Schools outputs are also monitored via league tables.

simongregson

Really2 wrote: »

I personally could not award teachers pay on RPI as they are government funded jobs.

CPI is the yard stick the government use for the country so I would see it as difficult to use RPI as the yard stick for public sector pay.
even though the private sector may use it, it is not the governments chosen method at the moment.

I agree that consistency is important, but I await the government scrapping the agreed 2 year 2.3% per year deal because RPI is 0.9% (whereas CPI is 3.2%). Am I being cynical?

Radiantsoul

simongregson wrote: »

I actually agree with this, the government always quotes £35k as a normal teaching salary whereas it only applies to those with 9 years experience.

The government tends to add headteachers into the mix, despite the fact that they are not part of the NUT.