Housing crisis. Number 10 apologises over tory slur e-mail

nickmason

Soubrette wrote: »

Vote libdem

Sou

Grr....

The easiest way to get conservatives and labour agreed on something is to ask them what they think of libdems. They plumb levels that even the Tories and labour can't match.

I have their official guide in front of me - "Be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly". First sentence of the "Your tactics" chapter. It also briefs - rather appropriately - on how to use leaks. For the record, I have never - officially or unofficially - been given any guidance on dark arts by the Conservative Party; yet it is in the manual for LDs.

And as for Rochdale's defeatism - no, there really are a lot of us in politics who know about this stuff, and can imagine doing it, but won't. Apart from the simple moral obligation to do the right thing in politics, there's also the fact that by not doing so we would encourage the rubbishing of the democratic process.

Don't tar all politicians with that brush.

A._Badger

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes - I can either vote for my side's lying shysters or the other side's lying shysters. I can't choose a government of anyone else - so what are you suggesting I do?

Stop being a slave to infantile tribalism. Either refuse to support any party which behaves like that, or work to change such behaviour from within.

Turning a blind eye to reptiles like McBride, Draper, Campbell and Mandelson is tantamount to endorsing their disgusting, amoral behaviour.

No one forces you to endorse either Conservative or Labour and a lot of people refuse to.

Graham_Devon

cleanmycleats wrote: »

Come on then Sou, why should i vote libdem? apart from obvious reasons like the party having Charles Kennedy, who seems to be a thoroughly decent & likeable guy- I can't imagine him fiddling his expenses somehow.

So your Rochdale then?

Is this your let off steam account

Rochdale_Pioneers

We all have a choice of government - Labour or Conservative. Vote for anyone else and you might as well not bother as our stupid first part the post system allows nothing else. Why vote Lib Dem? "we're a serious alternative" they say locally - then they actually run somewhere like Sheffield and are as awful as the rest of us.

And saying politicians are liars isn't defeatism its just reality. Yes there are exeptions to the rule but seriously how many genuine conviction politicians are there who say what they think and never knowingly lie? I can name a handful.

Zagu

Details are emerging.

• McBride’s ideas are set out under a series of headings, the first relating to a gay Tory MP. He suggests Red Rag circulates a story that the individual is “routinely using his position in the House of Commons to offer free publicity” to a large high street company for which the MP’s boyfriend works

• challenge David Cameron, the Conservative leader, to publish his “full financial and medical records”, and spread gossip that he may have suffered from a sexually transmitted disease.....But McBride suggests “inserting [a] picture of Dr Christian Jessen”, who appears on the Channel 4 programme Embarrassing Bodies. There is no suggestion that the two men know each other.

• Headlined “George’s photo album”, McBride’s third idea was to alarm the Conservatives by falsely hinting at the existence of embarrassing photographs of George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, from his university days.

• In what is perhaps the most vicious section, McBride suggests spreading rumours about the mental health of Frances, Osborne’s wife, following the furore over his discussions with a Russian oligarch during a party on a yacht last summer.

• In his most lurid slur, McBride suggests that “secret tapes” exist containing evidence that Osborne had sex with the prostitute. McBride makes obscene allegations about the use of a sex aid and also claims that drugs were taken. The shadow chancellor has always denied having any physical relationship with Rowe or taking any drugs with her.

• Finally, McBride suggests Red Rag concoct a tale about Nadine Dorries, a Tory back-bench MP, having a one-night stand with a married colleague during a party away day. McBride suggests Red Rag hint that a sex aid was accidentally left in a hotel bedroom.

All taken from The Times.


I think it's amusing that after we have seen Obama use the internet so successfully during his campaign, we now see that our politicians use it in such an unsavory manner. Blogs are not immune, and to believe that you could manufacture stories about the opposition in such a spiteful and, quite honestly, moronic way and then use a blog as a method of distribution is beyond belief. It really is a "What the hell were you thinking?" moment.

Graham_Devon

Jesus, if that's true, I wonder what the hell this bloke has been up to and advising Brown on in the past.

Most of that is simply inhumane.

Zagu

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Jesus, if that's true, I wonder what the hell this bloke has been up to and advising Brown on in the past.

Most of that is simply inhumane.

I agree. I thought it was going to be playground type rumours, but if some of these became common miscomprehensions, as they might well have done, I think that not only would it effect their political life, but their personal one too.

Astounding to think that someone who was such a close ally to Brown, who you would expect to be reasonably astute, would believe that it's acceptable to pursue such a underhanded and vindictive smear campaign, and get away with it. If Draper had published any of this, he's be taken to court in a flash. It leaves me feeling uneasy about Brown's choice of advisers.

A._Badger

Zagu wrote: »

Details are emerging.
I think it's amusing that after we have seen Obama use the internet so successfully during his campaign, we now see that our politicians use it in such an unsavory manner. Blogs are not immune, and to believe that you could manufacture stories about the opposition in such a spiteful and, quite honestly, moronic way and then use a blog as a method of distribution is beyond belief. It really is a "What the hell were you thinking?" moment.

And yet none of this is new. The Labour party has been using 'astroturfers' (fake commenters on blogs pretending to voice 'grass roots' opinions) for a long while.

Similarly, it brought down the last Tory government with an orchestrated campaign using its extensive media network, designed to paint the Tories as the party of sleaze (which they may or may not have been - that isn't the point).

However loathsome the Conservatives may have been , or may be now, it was Labour, under Mandelson and Campbell, that perfected the art of smear and innuendo. Do you remember when the ladies of the WI dared to give Blair the slow handclap? Labour's response was to smear some of them as having BNP connections. That's how low it gets.

None of this is new. Now is simply the first time that many people outside the system, or who don't keep up with the political blogs, are seeing what goes on.

And it is disgusting, whatever Labour apologists might pretend.

Zagu

A._Badger wrote: »

None of this is new. Now is simply the first time that many people outside the system, or who don't keep up with the political blogs, are seeing what goes on.

I don't think that's true at all. Blogs are rumour mills full of gossip, but this is in a completely different league, and is far removed from the usual tit-for-tat point scoring.

benood

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

There are some seriously naive posters on here. There seems to be Shock and Outrage at the idea of politicians smearing other politicians. Are you really daft enough to think this doesn't happen when emails aren't leaked?

And Graham - if pointing out this rather obvious fact is defending Labour then you seriously lack perspective. My lot are a bunch of amoral lying crooks. So are yours. They are politicians - its what they do.

You seem to be missing the fact that McBride was a civil servant - So we've all been paying for him to work for Labour - once proven he had to go.

These proposed smears are pretty outrageous I reckon, even from a partisan viewpoint. It makes all the 1997 demon eyes stuff seem pedestrian.