Parking fine, any ground for appeal?

Chippy_Minton_2

TheBogsDollocks wrote: »

The OP may well be guilty of contravening a double yellow line restriction but only if the TRO has been enabled and formed correctly. So I'm perplexed as to why, unless you have reviewed the TRO, that you say the "answer" is "yes" to your question "did he commit the offence"

OK I take your point, but when does the OP commit the offence, when he stops on the yellow lines or when the ticket is correctly issued?

He still commits the offence but may will get off for breach of policy. If you are robbed this afternoon when is the offence committed, today or when the Police correctly charge the offender?

TheBogsDollocks

An offence, in the eyes of the law only occurs when it has been proven. I fully understand your viewpoint. I'm not saying the law is perfect but if you were accused of an offence, guilty or not you would want your defence team to explore every avenue and not simply rollover.

Perhaps by challenging the law we help to improve it and help it evolve.

Chippy_Minton_2

ok so go back to my point, if the police didn't catch the offender then you won't have been robbed?

Neil_B

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

Wrong, you would win, as they are not double yellow lines unless they are painted correctly.

Ooooooh dear. I have tried to tell you - ya clearly know nothing.

http://keycases.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/docs/Minier,%20T-bar,%20effect%20of%20absence%20edited%20version.pdf
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So now you are advising the OP to appeal on a matter that will almost certainly result in defeat? More money saving advice?
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Neil_B

roddydogs wrote: »

So if u get caught speeding by a Police car following you, you would argue that "The police car was speeding as well?"

That would be silly. There is no correlation between the two situations, one being a criminal matter and the other civil.

In connection with what I think you are using the analogy for, if the police failed to folow correct procedures at any stage or, for example, issued a speeding ticket on the back of a fag packet (the equivalent of some Council PCNs) then yes it would be contestable.

Just by example. I have only ever had one speeding NIP in my life. 68 in a 50 zone. No prosecution, no fixed penalty, no points. Two others I know of - same issue - 77 and 81 in that 50 zone. Same result. You figure out why presumption of guilt is wrong yet?
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Neil_B

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

He still commits the offence but may will get off for breach of policy. If you are robbed this afternoon when is the offence committed, today or when the Police correctly charge the offender?

The analogy, like the speeding, is flawed. Yes I agree the offence is committed but in such a criminal scenario yes, people 'get off' through police incompetence or corruption. There will have been an offence but no resulting conviction.

A more correct analogy would be where the accused had actually robbed someone else and not you.
Then, like parking on DYs, if the DYs are not actually supposed to be there then he didn't do it.

- and don't forget the world of difference between criminal matters where I understand us all to be innocent until proven guilty and the reality of CPE where we are guilty until we prove our own innocence.
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Neil_B

Anyway. Bottom line is the OP needs to ignore all this tosh and start considering what real possibilities there might be.

A simple request for 'what Council' has been made. That alone can enable me to say yes. no or don't know to possibilities - and say whether a full scan is useful/needed.

As Bogs has said - its kinda a case of 'evening up the score' in response to frequent Council intransigence in fully legit 'no contravention' cases. It is also quite incredible that, given all their resources, Councils can't follow simple instructions from the Govt.
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Chippy_Minton_2

Four post in a row without reply. This man don't shut up and must have the last say, anyone else feel sorry for Mrs B?

TheBogsDollocks

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

ok so go back to my point, if the police didn't catch the offender then you won't have been robbed?

What's this got to do with helping the OP? This is a forum to help people save money with regard to parking fines. I don't wish to enter into a debate that takes us away from offering the OP the advice they seek. I'd be happy to enter into a debate via another thread if you care to begin one.

peeved_off

Thanks to those who have tried to give some positive suggestions. I have finally got my act together and have got a scanned copy of the front and back of the PCN. I have also got pictures of the yellow lines on which my car was parked including showing where they should end however I'm not allowed to post them on here due to the fact that I am a new member, so how can I get them up?