Clamping/towing on (my) private property??! Can anyone advise?

frivolous_fay

I went away with a group of friends for a week. One of them parked her car in the space owned by me, in the private car park for our flats protected by a key system and cast iron gates.

On her return (ahead of me due to injury) she found it had been towed. I'd forgotten to lend her the permit we're supposed to display.

I accept that this whole situation is due to my oversight. On Monday I'm going to be ringing the management company responsible for our flats to crawl on my knees for them to intervene. My friend is looking at a bill of £400+ (depending on how long they've had the car) on top of the 900 euros she's just paid out in medical costs for her boyfriend's shattered knee. I'll pay the fine myself if necessary but I'm so angry about it all... plus the bar stewards at the depot refused to give me directions yesterday afternoon on the grounds that my friend wouldn't get there in time. (So she's been without her car this weekend while her b/f is in hospital)

In summary... I'm hoping that one of the following will help me. Could anyone please advise?

1. How dare they tow a car from my private property without me asking them to? Have they trespassed?
2. Cars have been parked in my space without my permission for weeks on end and not been troubled. I had no idea the clamping company actually bothered to clamp anyone.
3. The signs warning about using permits are about 7 foot off the ground. Is this 'clearly visible'?
4. The towing fee is £208. Is this 'reasonable'?
5. We own our leasehold flat. What might our rights be regarding our personal parking space?
6. The clamping company is designed to protect the residents and businesses that share the car park. This time it has done the opposite. Relevant?

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

burbs_2

frivolous_fay wrote:

I went away with a group of friends for a week. One of them parked her car in the space owned by me, in the private car park for our flats protected by a key system and cast iron gates.

On her return (ahead of me due to injury) she found it had been towed. I'd forgotten to lend her the permit we're supposed to display.

I accept that this whole situation is due to my oversight. On Monday I'm going to be ringing the management company responsible for our flats to crawl on my knees for them to intervene. My friend is looking at a bill of £400+ (depending on how long they've had the car) on top of the 900 euros she's just paid out in medical costs for her boyfriend's shattered knee. I'll pay the fine myself if necessary but I'm so angry about it all... plus the bar stewards at the depot refused to give me directions yesterday afternoon on the grounds that my friend wouldn't get there in time. (So she's been without her car this weekend while her b/f is in hospital)

In summary... I'm hoping that one of the following will help me. Could anyone please advise?

1. How dare they tow a car from my private property without me asking them to? Have they trespassed?
2. Cars have been parked in my space without my permission for weeks on end and not been troubled. I had no idea the clamping company actually bothered to clamp anyone.
3. The signs warning about using permits are about 7 foot off the ground. Is this 'clearly visible'?
4. The towing fee is £208. Is this 'reasonable'?
5. We own our leasehold flat. What might our rights be regarding our personal parking space?
6. The clamping company is designed to protect the residents and businesses that share the car park. This time it has done the opposite. Relevant?

Thanks in advance for any assistance...

I think that the whole not displaying the permit is going to be game over for you unfortuantly. I think that they have you over a barrel there. They can say that the permit has to be displayed and if not then they tow, simple as that.

As for the cars being able to do it in the past, they will say that you should have informed them and they would have towed them away.

The best thing to do is speak to the management company, explain the situation and appeal to their good nature but to be honest i think that the outcome is going to involve you paying the fine im afraid.

tonys_3

Much will depend on the rules and regulations on parking. Suggest you read those first before approaching anyone to see loopholes etc that may exist. For instance can they remove your car for not showing the permit, or do they know your registration?

If the company acts in the interests of the tenants, rather than acting out of greed,
you can explain that you forgot to position the permit and see if they will accept the
actual cost of removal, rather than the punitive one.

lush_walrus

You need to check your lease documents really to find out regarding the clamping situation and check if you have been asked permission for clampers to be used in the car park. Its a bit of a difficult situation as you do not own the space, you effectively lease it same as your flat. The building and the car park remain in the ownership of the freeholder, and as such they can enforce clamping, but only on the agreement of the majority of leaseholders. Check with your management company, as it will be them who have ultimately brought the clampers in, to see if they have indeed asked permission. If they havent you need to find where the blaime lies, it will either be with the management company, the freeholder or the clampers if they are not permitted to clamp in the flat spaces etc
That is your first port of call, if you have been written to regarding the clampers being brought in and the majority of leasholders have accepted the clamping you will not stand very firm on getting any compensation, due to the fact that you did not display the permit.

highguyuk

Is your name on the parking bay itself? Maybe this could be used in someway...

I primarily agree with the walrus though - permits aren't just there for the fun of it!

frivolous_fay

Well, the management company were about as helpful as a kick in the teeth. They refuse to intervene or the 'clamping people will get shirty' I pointed out that the clampers operate under their authority and they must have some power over them. They muttered something about not setting a precedent. So much for them.

We were notified of the clamping scheme but none of the residents were ever asked to 'agree' to it. It was pretty much a like it or lump it deal brought in for the benefit of the businesses on the bottom two floors, who were getting their knickers in a twist about people being in their own spaces without permission.

I spoke to said businesses today who told me they don't ring the clampers unless it's a business space that is being occupied by someone without a permit. The clampers refuse to admit whether they were called out or not. The management company are under the impression that they waltz round there every few days and clamp whoever is in violation. I could take that more seriously if I hadn't had an unauthorised car stuck in my space for over two weeks last year, and at the weekend I counted 3 out of 8 cars parked sans permit.

I take on board what has been said here about the permit not being just for the fun of it. I've said from the start this is due to my mistake... but devil's advocacy aside for a moment, doesn't anyone find it in the least bit shocking that I've just had to pay out £355 to release a car that was parked in MY space, with MY permission, without anyone even bothering to consult ME?

We're trying to dig up the lease agreement at the moment... in the meantime my boyfriend's father (qualified as a barrister) has supplied us with a letter to tell them we're paying under protest and will be taking steps to reclaim the money. We'll follow it up with a sterner one and see where it gets us.

I'm not going to take this lying down! :mad:

Amba_Gambla

good luck! Let us know how you get on with them.....

lush_walrus

If they have not asked your permission, but are working under the instructions of the shops requests, then they should only have powers to actually clamp in the businesses parking spaces. A simular thing happened to a friend of mine, and she proved that they had no right to actually clamp the residents bays, and only had rights to clamp on the businesses. You do need to take this further, management companies are by nature useless. Get in touch with the freeholder, check your lease documents, and then tell the management company your rights, not ask them questions as they generally do not know what they are doing in my experiences. Unless it is agreed with you all as the leaseholders, or instructed by the owners of the land ie the freeholders in your lease documents, the clampers are effectively trespassing on private property when they use your parking spaces for survelance, and are not autherised to clamp on your spaces. If the businesses have requested them to be brought in, then that is their right as the leaseholders of the parking spaces which correlate with their lease documents, but only you (ie leaseholders as a committee) or the freeholder (in your lease documents) have the right to bring in clampers. You employ the managing agents, and as such they are under your instructions, (as a commitee). Not the other way around, they or the businesses do not have the rights to bring in the clampers on residents parking spaces.

waster_2

Firstly pay under protest as advised.

Then write (recorded delivery) to the clamping company requesting that they eother supply documentary evidence that they have the authority to clamp vehicles in your “private” parking space or to reimburse you the release fee etc. paid. Give them 14 days to deal with this and say if you do not receive a response you will be taking them to the Smalls Claims Court to recover both your money and associated costs.

This way you will either get your money back (best result), get details of whi authorised them to clamp in your “private” space (next best), or have to go to Court (least favourable). If they send details of who gave them permission to be cowbay clampers in your space you can then pursue them for recovery of your money, unless of course your lease says otherwise.

The issue of the freeholder is not so clear. If your space is part of your lease then generally the freeholder will have no jurisdiction over this area unless he has covenants or easements included the lease. However, if the space is outside the main lease you will need to refer to whatever agreement you have regarding what can and cannot be done. Normally the managing agents would have no jurisdiction over the use of the space, but only upon the repair, maintenance, cleaning etc of it.

One thing that has not been mentioned is income! These clampers must be paying for the “right” to clamp on the land in question. Could be a fixed fee or a commission. If this income is going to the Management company then it should be going on the balance sheet for your block. You are entitled to see and have a copy of these accounts. Ask the Management company for a copy ASAP, as well as a copy of any agreement they have with the clampers. Again, you are entiltled to see this under the Landlord and Tenant Act, just as you must be consulted and at least 2(?) estimates obtained for any works over £250(?) per flat.

Do not let this go as you (or your invitees) should not have to pay to park in your own space, assuming that you “own” it under a normal leasehold arrangement.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

pandas66

frivolous_fay wrote:

I take on board what has been said here about the permit not being just for the fun of it. I've said from the start this is due to my mistake... but devil's advocacy aside for a moment, doesn't anyone find it in the least bit shocking that I've just had to pay out £355 to release a car that was parked in MY space, with MY permission, without anyone even bothering to consult ME?

I think in all fairness you should look froma different angle that the clamping company were probably unaware you had gone away, unaware you had authorised a friend to use the space as the permit wasn't displayed and they may have felt they were acting on in your interest to remove the 'obstruction'.

frivolous_fay

Thanks guys, that gives us a couple more angles on the problem.

I appreciate we had a car parked without a permit. But:

1. I have NEVER complained to the management company about people parking in our space. I don't even own a car - what do I care?... unless I want a friend or relative to use the space?
2. The clampers were brought in for the benefit of the businesses, who were having a hissy fit. In fairness, most of the parking problems vanished when the 8 foot cast iron gates were installed, so the clampers are basically redundant. Out of 22 flats, there are only about 8 cars, tops, parked in the evenings. The residents don't have a parking problem, it's those nuisances on the ground floor ;-)
3. Those few residents who do park their cars have an amicable agreement. Would you really want your next door neighbour to know you'd set the clampers on them? A little musical car parking hasn't harmed anyone over the years.

The residents were reasonably satisfied with the situation. Now the clamping has made people bitter and twisted.

I must go dig up the last accounts report we had from those useless management blighters...