DLR Penalty charge - honest mistake

DCodd

FARE-COP wrote: »

A loss does not have to occur.


The alleged offences of travelling without a valid rail ticket with intent to avoid a fare or the Byelaw offence of failing to show a ticket on demand are not civil debt matters.

But surely that is the point exactly, Intent, As I am sure you are well aware intent is easier to prove in a civil court but has to BE proved in a criminal court! Correct or not??

FARE-COP

gner_ex wrote: »

I'm assuming that like me you work or have worked in the industry.

The TOC actually has either route available to it - county or crown court - though I acknowledge that the majority of actions take place in the crown court.

I work in a railway prosecution office.

Factually these cases are only heard in Magistrates Courts.

Only more serious matters can go to the Crown Court where any case would be heard before a Jury. This does not apply to ticket offences such as being discussed here.

Only very serious matters such as multiple forgeries or similar high value offences where charges might be brought under Forgery & Counterfieting or Theft legislations will go straight to Crown Court

The offences being discussed in this thread are what are known as 'Summary only' offences and are not heard at the Crown Court.

The only time such matters are referred to that 'higher' Court is when a defendant makes an appeal after a Magistrates Court have already ruled.

DCodd,

Yes, it is possible to prosecute an offence in a Magistrates Court without having to prove intent.

If a charge is brought under Section 5.3 of The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 then the prosecution must prove intent for their case to succeed.

However, if a charge is brought under Railways Byelaws, these are what is known as 'strict liability' offences. In these cases it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove intent in order to secure a conviction.

If a Byelaw says you must show a ticket then that is what you must do.
If you do not do so, then you can be found guilty a breach of Byelaw by way of failing to show a ticket.

If facilities are available to get a ticket and a clear sign is displayed saying you must do so, there is a pretty slim chance of avoiding a fine if any traveller does not have an outstandingly good reason for not complying with the rule.

If there is a truly compelling reason for not being able to get a ticket you might offer mitigation that may be accepted by a Court, but I suggest if that were the case the traveller would not be facing prosecution in the first place.

Hope that helps

woody01

I fail to see what kind of appeal or redress you want OP.

You were 100% travelling without a valid ticket.

pippitypip_2

woody - I was travelling with what I thought was a valid ticket, with countless past tickets covering months and months prior showing I always I have a ticket. I just honestly got the date wrong.

However it doesn't matter, I paid the fine - my mistake, no redress.

Thanks,
pippitypip

hardpressed

If I buy a one day travel card covering all zones can I travel on the DLR?

KeithP

hardpressed wrote: »

If I buy a one day travel card covering all zones can I travel on the DLR?

Let me google that for you.

gner_ex

FARE-COP wrote: »

I work in a railway prosecution office.

Factually these cases are only heard in Magistrates Courts.

Only more serious matters can go to the Crown Court...

The magistrates court _is_ part of the crown court!

dzug1

Altarf wrote: »

Every train? No train I use has them.

Anyway, getting back to the point, if you can operate a complicated thing like a train safely (on the DLR) with no staff at all on the train (no drivers, train captains, passenger service agents, nobody), then it should be perfectly possible to design barriers that could operate without being manned,

They can operate without being manned. It's catering for the exceptions that's the problem - they have to be both effective as barriers, and by-passable in case of need.

How do you distinguish between 'I need to get out of the station because I haven't got a ticket and don't want to pay' and 'I need to get out of the station coz I'm disabled and can't work the barriers' for example.