Difference between AST and agricultural rental contract

downshifter

tDear all

Am having frantic cleanup panic - even washing loose covers on sofa (my sofa) - as landlord is coming round a lunchtime. I haven't seen them for years apart from a meeting I requested a few weeks ago re maintenance. A few family members are coming this time. They have been arguing that maintenance is my responsibility and are saying that a man who lives up the road who is a tenant of a friend of theirs, does all his own maintenance including installing bathroom, windows, fixing roof etc. I have installed kitchen, done lots of other maintenance work including decorating, several times, flooring and paid electricians and plumbers to do what they do best, including a thorough overhaul of electrics and current elec certificate (there's no gas here). They say that the other tenant pays the same rent as me. However, I had a light bulb moment and realised that the other guy is probably on an agricultural tenancy, he has several fields, lots of sheep etc so has greater security and several other things about his tenancy which means he can put up barns and do stuff with a longer term view. I want to argue this with the landlord, that there is a vast difference and that building maintenance is their responsibility.. I've gleaned some info from the Defra website but wondered if there was someone around this morning who can give me a potted difference in terms of rights and responsibilities on both sides. Really grateful..

If they offer me a longer contract (though I'm insisting they fix leaking roof and windows first as they have been damaged ever since I came here years ago) then do I really have any greater security or can they still give me 2 months notice as a normal AST?

Thanks very much.

theartfullodger

Downshifter: Yup, agricultural stuff can be different but I don't think that is the issue...

First key point - you say you haven't seen them for years: When did your current tenancy start ?? After 28th Feb 1997?? If so, you are now on a periodic tenancy after the fixed term of your original tenancy ran out. See...
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/housing/private_sector_tenancies.htm
(Citizens Advice advice)
and "
Tenancy began before 28 February 1997

As an assured shorthold tenant you have the right to stay in the accommodation for the duration of the initial fixed-term unless you breach a term in the tenancy agreement or, for example, you are in rent arrears, or you have damaged the property.
If you stay in the home after the initial fixed - term ends and your landlord does not intend to renew the agreement and wants possession, they will have to give you at least two months notice to leave the property, and will have to go to court for possession of the property if you do not leave. If your landlord takes no action you will become a statutory periodic assured shorthold tenant and your landlord will not be able to regain possession of the property without going through this procedure.
Tenancies created on or after 28 February 1997

Your landlord cannot evict you during the first six months of the tenancy, or during the initial fixed-term, whichever is the longer, unless they have grounds for doing so, as for tenancies created before 28 February 1997.
At the end of this period your landlord can automatically get a court order to evict you, as for tenancies created before 28 February 1997."


If I remember correctly you can give him 1 month notice, he has to give you 2 (you might want to check with CaB or Shelter).


A NEW tenancy (minimum 6 months...) would give you at least 6 months security & various other things - e.g. protection of your deposit... But Landlord may have his own agenda - he might want to bump up the rent..


Re. the improvements you've made. Don't want to worry you but can you show you had your Landlord's permission to do them?? If not and he has a record of the condition, state & contents of the property he might have a case for arguing you should put things back as they were before. [Think of the example - I'm not suggesting this is your case. House let with white walls, newly painted. Inventory notes this & everything else. Tenant paints all walls dark brown with fluorescent green spots & yellow ceilings, newly painted. At end of tenancy Landlord could reasonably expect rooms to be repainted by tenant white or costs to do so to be taken from deposit).
Building maintenance is definitely his responsibility, I'll try & post more info on this later...

Best of luck..


Lodger (I'm a Landlord)

theartfullodger

Repairs === see (I assume you are in England - elsewhere may be different)

at
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/housing/private_sector_tenancies.htm#Repairs

"
Repairs

The landlord’s general responsibilities

By law, your landlord has a number of repairing responsibilities, including repairing and keeping in working order:-

• the structure and exterior of the premises, including drains, gutters and external pipes
• the water and gas pipes and electric wiring (including, for example, taps and sockets)
• the basins, sinks, baths and toilets
• fixed heaters (for example, gas fires) and water heaters (but not gas or electric cookers).

Your landlord has these duties by law, no matter what is written in the tenancy agreement. However, if you ask your landlord to do these repairs they may attempt to regain possession of the property or not renew the agreement when it expires. Before attempting to use this general right to repairs you should consult an experienced adviser.
The tenancy agreement may specify additional repairing obligations.
Discrimination and repairs

Your landlord is not allowed to refuse to carry out repairs to your home just because of your race, sex, disability, sexuality, religion or belief. This is discrimination and it's against the law.
These rules may not apply in some cases – for example, if your landlord lives in the same property as you.
If you think your landlord is refusing to carry out repairs because of your race, sex, disability, sexuality or religion, you should get advice from an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by e-mail, click on nearest CAB.
etc. etc .. etc..


"

and at ...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets

lots of useful stuff from Shelter...

Sounds like you've been doing your Landlord's job for him!

Cheers, Good Luck & let us know how you get on...!!

Lodger

downshifter

theartfullodger wrote: »

Downshifter: Yup, agricultural stuff can be different but I don't think that is the issue...

Building maintenance is definitely his responsibility, I'll try & post more info on this later...

Many thanks, tenancy started Nov 2000 so it's periodic with one months notice from me and 2 from him. I understand that (though not sure he does). My agreement states that tenant is responsible for interior decoration though I would understand it as perfectly reasonable to put things back as they were at the end of tenancy if necessary. Kitchen etc discussed by landlord, tho not sure they recognised that one was needed as ancient sink with dirty cupboard under might be their idea of adequate kitchen. They have muttered something about reimbursing me for it if I leave as although only B and Q is really nice. And I did nearly all the work myself anyway. The main prob is that they only have this other agric tenancy to compare with, I don't think they'd know a periodic from an ast from a whatever else if it jumped out and hit them, they have no real experience as landlords. I suspect they think all tenancies are as this other one. That's why I wanted to understand so I could maybe teach them about landlord/tenant responsibility and rights. I'd like them to know I respect their house and care about it but that it's only fair they do their share for all the money I've given them over the years.

Very grateful for all your help. It seems that if they offer me say a 5 yr contract on condition I do the work I would still have no greater security in law than if I let the current periodic run on indefinitely.

theartfullodger

Think you are right, except for the 1st 6months of the new deal where you would be protected under any new agreement.

However I doubt any Landlord would offer a 5-year deal, although if he doesn't understand the came he might.



Good luck!!...


Lodger

downshifter

Thanks, so whether he did or not, 5 yrs, 3, or even a 1 yr contract, in law I'm no better protected than if the periodic ran as it is now. Not worth the paper it's written on then as neither side needs to keep to it.

Help, they'll be here soon, last bit of hoovering now! It has also occurred to me they might be coming en masse togive me notice to leave.

Anyone know of a country cottage needing wonderful tenant???

tbs624

If the other tenancy is tied in with agricultural use of land and began after 1 April 1995 then it may well be a Farm Business Tenancy. In any case what another LL and another T do or don’t do is irrelevant to your own situation , as you realise but your LLs don’t seem to.

You say that your own tenancy began in 2000 - do you still have a copy of the original agreement?

Was it definitely an assured shorthold tenancy for a Fixed Term?

If so, when did the Fixed Term expire?

Do you pay a very low rent for this property?
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tbs624

You don't have to agree to anything today - take notes, smile and say that you'll come back to them

downshifter

tbs624 wrote: »

You don't have to agree to anything today - take notes, smile and say that you'll come back to them

Which is what they've been saying to me for the past 8 years!!!

Anyway they've been and measured up for new plastic windows (the house is over 200 years old so a shame but as it isn't my house I can't influence this!) There is one small window that is original and they want to take that one out too. As it's the only one that doesn't leak I'm hoping they change their mind about that one and let it stay. They've also looked at various things to do with the roof that need fixing. So fingers crossed we will get somewhere with it all. Although pleasant enough they still obviously don't think it's their responsibility and have made it clear that if, once they've priced up the jobs, they are too expensive, things might not get fixed or the minimum will be done.

One thing was that they were saying how nice the view is so I jokingly asked if they would ever want to move back here. And there was no straight answer so I now have other concerns.

Probably being too sensitive. I'm really grateful about the support on here, it gave me strength to understand where I stand. Now the panic has gone I shall do some more reading up of the sites you have recommended.

Incidentally I pay £390 a month, a similar 2 bed cottage owned by a friend is £450, beautifully furnished and decorated and inclusive of oil, elec and water. Another friend has an immaculate barn conversion, lots of orig features, also fully furnished and inclusive of elect, oil and water, that's £600. So I think mine is competitively priced. The original contract was more a list of rules about what I could and couldn't do, and included a sentence that decorating is the tenant's responsibility which is fine. If they want it returned to the original, which would be fair enough, I'll take out the kitchen, remove plants etc from the garden, undo the electric features that I paid to make safe, remove loft lagging and so on. It would be ridiculous but I'd do it, I accept my responsibilities.

I couldn't help but laugh though, as they left the landlord said 'There's always something with houses isn't there!!' Always equals once in eight years!!!

tbs624

Sorry - it perhaps would have helped more if I had explained why I was asking those specific questions.

Although your tenancy originally started in 2000( so after the magic 29 Feb 1997) it isn't clear from what you have said so far, that it is *definitely* an AST (assured *shorthold* tenancy).

After that date the default tenancy would be an AST, but where there is a very high or very low rent ( or indeed, no rent) then it cannot be an AST.

If your original tenancy agreement contained any form of declaration that the agreement was not to be an AST, then it is lprobable that it was a standard assured tenancy. If it was an assured tenancy then any periodic agreement continues under assured terms and can only be replaced by an AST with your agreement.

Either way, as an original agreement starting after 24th October 1961 for a fixed term of less than 7 years, the Landlord has what are called "S11 repairing obligations", courtesy of the LL&T Act 1985 and as outlined by Artful, above.

The other tenancy, to which you mention your LLs referring, would probably fall under this part of the LL&T Act:

S14 (3) Section 11 does not apply to a lease of a dwelling-house which is a tenancy of an agricultural holding within the meaning of the Agricultural Holdings Act 1986and in relation to which that Act applies or to a farm business tenancy within the meaning of the Agricultural Tenancies Act 1995.

You may find it helpful to discuss the fine detail of your own tenancy agreement with someone at Shelter 0808 800 4444 ( 8-8, 7 days a week)

downshifter

Sorry for confusing things, I had thought that a periodic contract was the same as an AST but after the initial 6 months had ended. I wish these terms would describe what they mean. None of it feels very 'assured' to me! And shorthold isn't very short as it's 8+ yrs in my case.

The contract doesn't use any of these sorts of terms, just stuff about I must replace any broken window glass, do the decorating, pay for damage and no subletting. Fair enough. I understand from what I've read however, that both LL and tenant have rights and responsibilities in law irrespective of the contracts.

You're right about the farm tenancy, that's what my landlord is thinking of. Interestingly, they asked me to let them know if the field next to my house ever comes up for sale so they can buy it to add to the property.

I'll take your advice re Shelter, many thanks to everyone for your help.