Q about electrical certificate

TomsMom

Can anyone answer this for my friend.

A tradesman is doing a job (general building work inside the house) for a customer. She then asks him "While you're here can you do this little electrical job for me". Tradesman is not a qualified electrician but knows what he's doing so does her a favour and carries out the electrical job.

She doesn't ask him if he's a qualified electrician, nor does he inform her that he's not.

Job finished, invoice sent. Customer is now asking for a certificate.

There's a bit of a twist in that she also asked if he is CIS registered (which he isn't as it's just a small two man business), asked for his N.I. number (which he didn't give) and asked for the invoice to be made out to another person at a business address (presumably to go through the business books).

He's not received payment yet.

So - what do you think? Is he in deep doodoo as he's not a qualified electrician and can't issue the certificate?

premkit

we need to know what electrics were done. some jobs are not notifiable.
NI has nothing to do with the customer.
did he inform her he was not registered?
he can ask local building control to test and cert which will cost him.

Fleeting_Glimpse

If he's a general builder and not a electrician...isn't it asking a bit much to demand a certificate?

TomsMom

Thanks guys.

premkit wrote: »

we need to know what electrics were done. some jobs are not notifiable.

Ah, OK. I don't know what was done but I can find out.

NI has nothing to do with the customer.

That's what we said and he hasn't given this information.

did he inform her he was not registered?

Not at the beginning because the question was only asked once he'd sent the invoice. He's now informed her they're not registered with CIS. Isn't that something to do with bigger companies rather than a small two man business?

he can ask local building control to test and cert which will cost him.

Would he have to pay that or could he suggest the customer calls in B.C. to test?

Fleeting Glimpse
If he's a general builder and not a electrician...isn't it asking a bit much to demand a certificate?

Yes but it looks as though she's turned into a bit of an awkward customer, probably on some kind of fiddle too by the looks of it, asking for the invoice to be made out to a business rather than her personally. She also asked if he was VAT registered (they're not, business is small and doesn't reach VAT level) so I expect she was hoping to claim that back through the business. He's a bit stupid really, doing electrical work when he knows he can't issue the necessary certificate, but he's Mr Nice Guy (Softie is his middle name!) and can't say "No" when a customer asks for favours/more work to be done.

baldelectrician

From my recollection the person ordering the work is responsable for the Part P sham. The contractor did not advertise as qualified to do electrics and the client knew this- they were going for the cheap option.

As far as CIS, there was no requirement at the outset and therefore this did not form part of the contract. I do not carry out CIS works as 20% is deducted at source and then sent to HMRC.
I'd rather have the full amount and pay tax later on (sometimes 10 months later)

It is a requirement to be registered as self employed with HMRC (if you are carrying out work as a sole trader), but there is generally no requirement to be CIS registered unless you are working for a larger contractor that has this reqirement.

Either way the client asked for the work to be done and should pay the invoice price. I note the client has not commented adversley about the quality of the works.

TomsMom

Thank you Baldy. There has been no problem with the quality of the work and he's yet to see if she pays the invoice. Their business is all above board with HMRC etc. so no problems there and they don't do work for any large contractors so no need for CIS.

I did wonder if the client should ensure that a Part P certificate would be given. We did this when sorting out our house renovation and made sure the necessary certificates would be forthcoming from the tradesmen we used.

AFAIK the client didn't ask if he was a qualified electrician, she just asked if he would do the work she required. Hopefully he wont make this mistake again in the future, however kind hearted you are it's not worth it if it's likely to cause you a lot of trouble!

baldelectrician

Some times (as a tradesperson) you need to walk away from some jobs. It's better to say no - know your limitations (that's whytry to steer clear of plumbing)

dwarvenassassin

Couple of points.

CIS has nothing to do with the size of organisation. Anyone sub-contracting in the construction industry has to be CIS registered.
Asking for NI number is part of the CIS verification system.
VAT registration can be obtained below the £67,000 treshold.
LABC CANNOT issue a certificate for the electrical works - in fact, no-one can. Only a Periodic Inspection Report can be obtained at this point.
It is the property owners responsibility to ensure compliance with Building Regulations, she can't blame him.

Speak to HMRC as it sounds like the client may be breaking a few rules.
Send a nice letter about courts and solicitors, this usually wakes up late payers.

TomsMom

I found out today that the electrical work carried out was (1) Change a socket and (2) Replace some dangerous wiring that had previously been left taped up.

They're also suspicious that this client wants to let the property and think it may be a way of getting the certificate that is required by a landlord.

They've done a bit of research and seem to think that they are allowed to do the works mentioned without a certificate and have e-mailed to tell her this. Hopefully she will now pay up.

thescouselander

As far as I am aware replacing like with like does not need a certificate.

TomsMom

Just heard something else about this.

Client is sending a cheque but says she is deducting 30% as it is going through the business and that they can claim it back (apparently their accountant would know about it ).

She's obviously on a fiddle as it appears it's a holiday let and she shouldn't be putting it through the business.

Does anyone know anything about this 30% deduction thing? Why would a client deduct 30% and then the tradesmen have to wait months to claim it back from the tax man?