renting - who pays council tax?

mlz1413

always good to be updated artful, so by default you are saying any house with rooms let indiviually that is only 1 storery high is just a private let.

I can't remember where I found out but I thought by renting on indiviual agreements the house defaulted to HMO as it had basically multiple occupancy.

Wig

Ok, I see now that Artful was addressing only the HMO definition.

There are now 2 parts to this thread.

1. The definition of an HMO
It would appear that Artful's definition clashes with Madjock's post #7 (legal?) definition. But "Madjock" implies a Scot, so it could be a Scottish definition. If so it would match Artful's definition.


2. What happens to council tax when all occupants are students?
If they are all students what is the situation for council tax?
Is it any different if the house is single household or HMO?

tbs624

theartfullodger wrote: »

Re. mlz1413's "clarification" re. HMO err... nope, sorry, I fear he has been mis-informed...

in England & Wales it is "
HMO of three or more storeys that is occupied by 5 or more people in two or more households.
"

Artful - you are confusing your HMOs. A property let in its entirety to 3 or more people , who form 2 or more unrelated households,* is* an HMO. The difference is that it will come under additional/discretionary licensing , rather than the mandatory licensing (for the 3 storey/5 occupants properties) or selective licensing (usually area specific).

For the HMOs that come under mandatory licensing the Council Tax is the reponsibility of the LL, but the property will be registered as exempt provided that the LL obtains proof from the student occupiers university/college, in the form of an exemption certificate & presents these to the Council.

For the smaller HMOs it is usually the reponsibility of the tenants to directly provide their exemption certs direct to the council. If the students are away in the summer but will be returning to the same property they should talk to the Council about the "intercalation rules" which say that a student may spend some time away during their course but, provided that they remain registered as full time students on a continuing course, they will still be treated as students who are exempt.

These confusions are one of the reasons that properties for students tend to be let from 1 July through to 30 June each year.

Madjock

my info was taken from an england and wales website.

if the house is occupied by students, the student stuff applies. a hmo is as described above for council tax purposes, 2 or more households with separate tenancy agreements but with shared kitchen/bathroom facilities. I lived in a rented bedsit when council tax was introduced and let me tell you, the landlady was NOT amused when I advised her that the council tax was her bill to pay.

maythegirl

Hi, I have a question regarding council tax liability as well.
I'm currently renting a private property, and both I and the landlord have signed AST agreement contract, which clearly states (hand written by the agent) that the all bills including council tax are inclusive. The contract is 12 months full period, but half way through the contract, my landlord apparently has been exempt from HMO (because council found out that each rooms are now self-contained - the room has been self contrained from the moment I moved in...and she could not inform this to them before accepting any new tenants???) and each rooms have been banded by the council, and now the council tax need to be paid by the tenant. However, under my contract, the rent I pay to her includes the council tax payment and therefore even though the council tax may now be under my name, I believe that the landlord should still be paying either to me or to the council for the tax payment....Does anyone know if I am in the right position here or not?? Otherwise there wouldn't be any point of such thing as a tenancy agreement, is there??

Thanks,

lincroft1710

It is the occupier of a dwelling who is primarily responsible for paying CT. So you should try to negotiate a reduced rent with your landlord.

CIS

The agreement cannot overrule the relevant legislation - unless the property falls under council tax HMO regulations (Liability Of Owners Regs 1992) then the tenant (unless the L/L is resident) will be the person liable under reg 6 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement ) regs 1992.

You would need to chase the L/L for any payments you may have made to him and ask that these be made to the council. Any agreement you may have with him does not remove your liability for the council tax due.

Iam a bit confused as to this

The contract is 12 months full period, but half way through the contract, my landlord apparently has been exempt from HMO (because council found out that each rooms are now self-contained - the room has been self contrained from the moment I moved in...and she could not inform this to them before accepting any new tenants???) and each rooms have been banded by the council, and now the council tax need to be paid by the tenant

HMO properties under council tax regs aren't exempt as a matter of course - it would depend on the several different issues as to whether they would qualify for an exemption (exactly the same as would any property).

Are the rooms banded as self contained flats ? If so they would have banded by the Valuation Office and not the council (the council have no control over property bandings). Check at https://www.voa.gov.uk for the banding of the property - it will give you a list of all the seperate bandings for that property. Whether they are banded individually or as one property makes a difference reagrding the liability.

maythegirl

From what she told me, I believe she has registered herself under HMO before she converted her house into several self-contained studios(before I moved in ofcourse), assuming she would get away with it even after the conversion. The property now (since the time I moved in, which is last October) are converted into 6 diffferent self-contained studioes, and each studio rooms are banded individually. As you said, you are correct, I do recall her saying that the banding was made by valuation office and was notified to the council for the tax matter.

I do understand that the liability lies on me, and hence the council will not be able to remove my name. But because she's agreed to include the tax amount in the rent I pay, shouldn't I be able to claim to my Landlord on any payment I made to the council for tax payment? Even though her circumstances have changed - which is not something I was aware of when I moved in....and is not any of tenants' responsibilities either... Do I have the right to deduct the amount they are after from my rent? ( She has agreed to deduct the monthly tax payment amount from May 2009 onward, which is fine, but the council is now after for the payment on tax from the day I moved in, October 2008 until April 2009 which neither of us have paid yet). I am moving out in October and plan to deduct that period of tax payment from my last rent payment...Can I do that?? ( I have already handed in the notice by the way)

Sorry, I know this is very complicated but I need to know my rights and that I can do what I can to make things right legally under the tenancy agreement we have bounded....Thanks for all the previous replies, I really appreciate them

CIS

I do understand that the liability lies on me, and hence the council will not be able to remove my name. But because she's agreed to include the tax amount in the rent I pay, shouldn't I be able to claim to my Landlord on any payment I made to the council for tax payment

You can try to get the money from your L/L but that could mean going down the small claims court route if she gets awkward.

Sharon87

Students get Council Tax Exemption Certificates from the university on registration. You don't have to pay council tax on the house during the dates on the exemption certificate - so if the tenancy agreement starts before or ends after the dates specificed the students will be liable to pay for it - providing the whole house is rented out, not just the rooms.

You also have to remember to go to the council and give them your council tax exemption certificate so they can photocopy it.