Do you think we could have avoided recession if the Tories were in power?

tomterm8

treliac wrote: »

Agreed. The 'poor' of the UK are not poor. No-one has to starve or freeze, with no food or without a roof over their head.

No one has to starve, but there are people who are homeless, who have no roof over their head, and who have to cope with whatever the weather brings.

treliac

baby_boomer wrote: »

Probably not the guys and gals who have to say "Sorry" every time a policy from the last 12 years has to be ditched

Whenever has this happened? I must have missed it each time.

treliac

tomterm8 wrote: »

No one has to starve, but there are people who are homeless, who have no roof over their head, and who have to cope with whatever the weather brings.

Are they entirely without choice though? Don't organisations such as Shelter arrange accommodation for those who would make use of it?

Furthermore, medical attention is available for anyone and everyone who needs it, unlike many other parts of the world. It's part of the allure of the UK for many illegal immigrants.

Degenerate

tomterm8 wrote: »

No one has to starve, but there are people who are homeless, who have no roof over their head, and who have to cope with whatever the weather brings.

I challenge you to find one that isn't suffering from addictions or mental illness.

Street homelessness is a care issue rather than a poverty one.

treliac

Degenerate wrote: »

I challenge you to find one that isn't suffering from addictions or mental illness.

Street homelessness is a care issue rather than a poverty one.[/quote]

Succinctly and well put.

ManAtHome

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I believe our poor would be poorer if the Tories were in Government.

Really - I thought the gap between UK rich and poor had widended over the last 10 years or so..?

vivatifosi

ManAtHome wrote: »

Really - I thought the gap between UK rich and poor had widended over the last 10 years or so..?

Yep, try googling Gini Coefficient or Lorenz Curve and that's what you will see. If you view this paper it identifies how inequality went up under Thatcher, came down slightly a the tail end of the Major government and then got worse under Blair:

http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn33.pdf

This one has been updated recently:

http://www.poverty.org.uk/09/g.pdf

This table shows how inequality of income in the UK compares to other countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

And the pros and cons of Gini data and a description of how it is derived are covered here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

tomterm8

Degenerate wrote: »

I challenge you to find one that isn't suffering from addictions or mental illness.

Street homelessness is a care issue rather than a poverty one.

A friend of mine went through a period of unemployment a couple of years ago due to a bad back. She spent 18 months living between friends, and sometimes sleeping on the street. She has no mental health issues, and she is not addicted to anything. She worked before her bad back, and since the doctors finally sorted out, she is back working. Because she was not a priority case, the council weren't obliged to help her. In my area, there is a 2 year waiting list for housing. It is a very expensive area to live in, and benefits don't cover anything like actual housing costs.

I would say 95% of people sleeping on the street may have mental illness or addiction problems, but not everyone does.

treliac

But isn't that gap filled by charity / third sector organisations? Not ideal, maybe, but I am sure there is assistance for those who are in real need.

Yes, councils are only obliged to house priority cases, such as mothers and their children, elderly and disabled.

tomterm8

treliac wrote: »

But isn't that gap filled by charity / third sector organisations? Not ideal, maybe, but I am sure there is assistance for those who are in real need.

Not in my area, no. Maybe in yours. That's the problem with relying on charity - it all depends on what people give locally. My mother used to be on the local Christians Together committee that dealt with charity giving in the south east, at that time there were three hostels in my area and they regularly had to turn people away. Since then, all but one has closed due to lack of donations. But the economy is in dramatic decline.