Universities push for higher fees

bestpud

My worry is we will soon have HE for those who can afford it, and not HE for those who are capable of it.

MrsManda

No matter how high the fees go up there are always going to be fee loans to cover it available to students. The money you owe when you leave university will go up but as repayment is based on income not on how much you owe and student loans aren't taken into account when being credit checked means that the amount of debt isn't all that important.
As said previously, it costs a lot for a university to keep going. It's not just the course itself, though the current fees by no means covers the cost of the course, especially science and engineering courses, but universities in order to provide the best education have to have the best equipment and attract the best staff and this requires an awful lot of cash.

bestpud

MrsManda wrote: »

No matter how high the fees go up there are always going to be fee loans to cover it available to students. The money you owe when you leave university will go up but as repayment is based on income not on how much you owe and student loans aren't taken into account when being credit checked means that the amount of debt isn't all that important.
As said previously, it costs a lot for a university to keep going. It's not just the course itself, though the current fees by no means covers the cost of the course, especially science and engineering courses, but universities in order to provide the best education have to have the best equipment and attract the best staff and this requires an awful lot of cash.

I agree with all of that, but degrees, like every other formal qualification, are being watered down due, due in part to widening access.

I would argue universities will not provide the best possible education, as many do not now; rather they will carry on providing what the massses need.

HE is no longer the preserve of the academic elite and I'm afraid it is going down the pan, along with the rest of our education system.

No amount of money will change that as it isn't about money in the first place.

omelette451

bestpud wrote: »

My worry is we will soon have HE for those who can afford it, and not HE for those who are capable of it.

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite in fact: tuition fees, as applied here today, are among the most socialistic of all government policies. Universities can't apply big fees unless they offer bursaries to those from less well-off backgrounds (defined as household income anything less than £60k), and these are topped up by government grants, which means that those who can't necessarily afford to support themselves get lots of help.

In any case the responsibility for paying the fees falls exclusively on the student (not the parent), so family income is irrelevant when it comes to fees. If the system is applied properly every student will owe the same on graduation, regardless of family origin; the problem, however, is that many richer families refuse to follow the system and insist on paying their kids' fees anyway, and then have the cheek to complain vociferously about it.

MrsManda

bestpud wrote: »

HE is no longer the preserve of the academic elite and I'm afraid it is going down the pan, along with the rest of our education system.

I think this is true in a lot of cases - I have never understood why there is a target to get so many people into university when only about 30% of children get 5 A*-C grades at G.C.S.E.s. I also don't understand why many colleges have now been classed as universities (possibly because it means more people go to 'university'?).

However, I do think that's it's not necessarily that university degrees are being 'dumbed down' across the board, science and engineering degrees are as hard as ever both to get on to a course and to study one. The problem lies partly with 'new degree subjects' which previously would have been vocational courses, not degrees.

bestpud

MrsManda wrote: »

I think this is true in a lot of cases - I have never understood why there is a target to get so many people into university when only about 30% of children get 5 A*-C grades at G.C.S.E.s. I also don't understand why many colleges have now been classed as universities (possibly because it means more people go to 'university'?).

However, I do think that's it's not necessarily that university degrees are being 'dumbed down' across the board, science and engineering degrees are as hard as ever both to get on to a course and to study one. The problem lies partly with 'new degree subjects' which previously would have been vocational courses, not degrees.

Unfortuntely, I can see a lot of the money being spent on 'new' subjects, aimed at attracting the less academic pupils. I ca also see a lot of it going on marketing and the like, but relatively little going to the areas that matter.

I agree there are still 'good' degrees and 'good' institutions and I hope it stays that way.

I would urge any prospective student to be very careful what and where they choose to study as it seems more important than ever.

bestpud

Just noticed there is a very similar thread in DT at the moment, if anyone is interested.

Oldernotwiser

MrsManda wrote: »

However, I do think that's it's not necessarily that university degrees are being 'dumbed down' across the board, science and engineering degrees are as hard as ever both to get on to a course and to study one. The problem lies partly with 'new degree subjects' which previously would have been vocational courses, not degrees.

It's really not true that it's hard to get into Science and Engineering degrees. There are such low numbers of students taking these subjects at A level that, apart from the most prestigious places, it's actually quite easy.

However, I do agree with the rest of your points.

Oldernotwiser

bestpud wrote: »

Just noticed there is a very similar thread in DT at the moment, if anyone is interested.

I know - I've come over all omnipresent!

bestpud

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I know - I've come over all omnipresent!

Well, I was wondering where my posts had gone, and thought something wasn't quite right, but couldn't work out what! :doh:

:rotfl: Honestly! It's so easy to convince me I'm going mad!! :rotfl: