Selling but asbestos in artex. Advice requried ASAP

g_fella

Really hoping someone can offer some sensible advice on what I should do.

Been trying to sell my flat for the last year, finally found a buyer, so me and the missus went out to find our perfect house, found it, and the ball is starting to roll (Chain of 4, i.e. 3 purchases my buyer, us buying, my sellers buying).

All looking good until my buyer had a mate tell him about asbestos in artex. He promptly arranged for a survey on my property (built in early 80's) and hey presto, the report has come back saying that there is asbestos in the artex. Although the testers themselves are not an asbestos removal company they have suggested that the work required to remove it properly would be £5k to remove all ceiling and insulation in as safe manner and disposal of the materials. Then it would be another £3k to install new ceiling, insulate, plaster and fit light fittings. I.e. £8k. :eek: As such my buyer has said he would still be happy to proceed but on a revised offer of £8k less.

I cant take that kind of hit, as i wouldnt be able to afford the extra money on the deposit for our new place.

I dont know whether the bloke is being serious, or whether he is just trying to get the flat even cheaper (i've already dropped the price loads in the last year). He claims that the work would be required as he plans to put halogen lighting in the ceiling and will therefore need to cut holes in the artex.
As far as I am aware if he wasnt going to disturb the artex, then it is perfectly safe if it is left in situ.

I appear to have 3 courses of action:
1) Tell him where to go and try and find another buyer, but probably killing the chain in the meantime.
2) Negotiate with the people we are buying a house off (not really their problem, although there house was built in the 70's and also has artex ceilings so we potentially could have the same problem).
3) Split the costs with my buyer.

Or some combination of 2 and 3 above.

Any ideas about how to resolve this ?
Do/should I inform my solictor about any of this ?

My agent is more than willing to take on the negatiations, he just needs to know how I want to play this. I'm already panicking that the whole thing is going to fall through, and thought I'd post here to ask some advice.

princessamy86

Horrible situation for you. If I was you, I would get my own quote for the work, from at least 2 different contractors. If you focus on keeping your buyer (which I'm assuming is top priority!) then you can then say, ok I have a quote to get the work done for x amount (which will hopefully be cheaper than his quote as he won't have shopped around) and I'm willing to pay x amount to the cost. It is fair enough for your buyer not to want to buy a house with asbestos (although I take your point about it not being a problem unless it's disturbed) but he might just be seeing how much he can get away with knocking your price down.

By all means try and negotiate with your sellers, but don't be surprised if they can't do anything! I would try and get your agent to negotiate some kind of compromise on paying for it, if you told your buyer that you would put the halogen lights in if he payed x amount of cost, then you are saving him money on that anyway so he might be more amenable. Hope that helps

Davesnave

theartfullodger wrote: »

It would be entirely reprehensible of me to mention what a builder friend of mine suggested in similar circumstances: Of course the timescales might not suit you.....

a) Take house off market..
b) re-decorate every room with the aforementioned **tex, skimming over the **tex a layer of thin plaster/skim..
c) Put house back on't market with new agent...

No one would wanna look at such a course of action, obviously...

Meanwhile, besides the cost of the work, the property loses another 5%? And that's if you're lucky....... Nah!

Offer to split the difference, or if it's really the Artex they just can't stand, (and who'd blame them) suggest you have it all skimmed. Putting halogen lights in is hardly equivalent to playing with fissile nuclear material, if you take adequate precautions. You can get a darned good mask for £30 and a Miele vacuum with allergen filter will sort most dust you create anyway.

Geenie

I am shocked that there was ever Asbestos in Artex......I have just googled and it would appear to be true for pre 1990's!!! I am surprised that this has not been more publicised to be honest, as the OP like most of us would have been unaware. My mother has Artex on her ceilings......thought it was better then the polystyrene tiles she had put up in the 70's!!! I will make subtle enquiries as to when it was done, as don't want to freak her out!

Good luck OP. The fact that Artex I assume is not coming up on any surveys as ringing bells for future problems, would make me think only to take Davesnaves suggestion if you are really desperate to sell now and don't want to wait.

Doozergirl

There's nothing wrong with skimming over the artex. Asbestos is safe if it's left in place. Loads of people do it and it's what we've done - it would be inconceivable to spend 8k removing stuff that isnt' falling down.

And spotlights are so yesterday, lol. I don't even have a centre pendant in my lounge - We have wall lights, floor and table lamps.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

3


Arent you selling a house & not paying for the work he wants to do on it...


Give him £50 off for paint...

g_fella

princessamy86 wrote: »

Horrible situation for you. If I was you, I would get my own quote for the work, from at least 2 different contractors. If you focus on keeping your buyer (which I'm assuming is top priority!) then you can then say, ok I have a quote to get the work done for x amount (which will hopefully be cheaper than his quote as he won't have shopped around) and I'm willing to pay x amount to the cost. It is fair enough for your buyer not to want to buy a house with asbestos (although I take your point about it not being a problem unless it's disturbed) but he might just be seeing how much he can get away with knocking your price down.

By all means try and negotiate with your sellers, but don't be surprised if they can't do anything! I would try and get your agent to negotiate some kind of compromise on paying for it, if you told your buyer that you would put the halogen lights in if he payed x amount of cost, then you are saving him money on that anyway so he might be more amenable. Hope that helps

Thanks for the reasonable advice.

theartfullodger wrote: »

It would be entirely reprehensible of me to mention what a builder friend of mine suggested in similar circumstances: Of course the timescales might not suit you.....

a) Take house off market..
b) re-decorate every room with the aforementioned **tex, skimming over the **tex a layer of thin plaster/skim..
c) Put house back on't market with new agent...

No one would wanna look at such a course of action, obviously...

Taking it off the market and doing as you say is my absolute last resort. With the down turn in the housing market it's taken me a year to get a buyer. I dont want to lose them, especially as my girlfriend and I have found a lovely house (albeit probably with asbestos in the artex :rolleyes: )

Davesnave wrote: »

Offer to split the difference, or if it's really the Artex they just can't stand, (and who'd blame them) suggest you have it all skimmed. Putting halogen lights in is hardly equivalent to playing with fissile nuclear material, if you take adequate precautions. You can get a darned good mask for £30 and a Miele vacuum with allergen filter will sort most dust you create anyway.

Exactly, cant afford to go back on the market. The offer I accepted was already 24% down on the asking price 1 year ago. I've been doing some more research on things like drilling through artex coverings. Found this page on the HSE gov site. Says that it's possible to do safely without taking the whole ceiling down. Just makes me think even more that my buyer is just trying to get the flat as cheap as possible. Or he has been advised by a company that intends to do the work for £8k ! (and who wouldnt).

Doozergirl wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with skimming over the artex. Asbestos is safe if it's left in place. Loads of people do it and it's what we've done - it would be inconceivable to spend 8k removing stuff that isnt' falling down.

This is going to be one of my points to my buyer. If I had previously skimmed over the top (as many people have in this world) he wouldnt have even thought twice about the possibility of their being asbestos in artex underneath, and he would have quite happily drilled through it. If my deal falls through then I would assume he is going to go into every other house he likes and ask if he can get someone in to take a chunk out of the ceiling (as they have in my flat - albeit in a cupboard so you cant see it from day to day).

I think my only course of action at the mo, is to read up more, formulate a response that doesnt make me sound like I'm calling him a 'pain in the arris', tell him I'm not going to take £8k of the price (cos that's just not going to happen), suggest that he can do his lights without going to all the trouble of taking the ceiling down, and see if we can resolve this some other way. If I need to negotiate with the people I'm buying with, then so be it, depends how desperate they are to move I guess.

Just so confused (and annoyed). Thanks all for you words.

Any specialists out there like to tell me why the guy (or his asbestos experts) are suggesting that the insulation above the ceilings could be contaminated ? Surely when they put the board up, they seal or tape the joins before applying the artex coating ? i.e. when houses were built in the 80's they dont just artex straight onto the plasterboard panels, or do they ?

edgex

g_fella wrote: »

All looking good until my buyer had a mate tell him about asbestos in artex. He promptly arranged for a survey on my property (built in early 80's) and hey presto, the report has come back saying that there is asbestos in the artex. Although the testers themselves are not an asbestos removal company they have suggested that the work required to remove it properly would be £5k to remove all ceiling and insulation in as safe manner and disposal of the materials. Then it would be another £3k to install new ceiling, insulate, plaster and fit light fittings. I.e. £8k. :eek: As such my buyer has said he would still be happy to proceed but on a revised offer of £8k less.

g_fella wrote: »

Any specialists out there like to tell me why the guy (or his asbestos experts) are suggesting that the insulation above the ceilings could be contaminated ? Surely when they put the board up, they seal or tape the joins before applying the artex coating ? i.e. when houses were built in the 80's they dont just artex straight onto the plasterboard panels, or do they ?

who did the 'survey'?
are they saying the asbestos is in the artex, or in the insulation above the ceilings?
its all very well having a report saying asbestos, but there are different types, & different courses of action depending on its condition & situation.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/asbindex.htm

http://www.ukas.com/business/indirect/asbestos_surveying_and_testing.asp

some useful info on those links.
was it not picked up on when you had the HIP done?

Doozergirl

g_fella wrote: »

Any specialists out there like to tell me why the guy (or his asbestos experts) are suggesting that the insulation above the ceilings could be contaminated ? Surely when they put the board up, they seal or tape the joins before applying the artex coating ? i.e. when houses were built in the 80's they dont just artex straight onto the plasterboard panels, or do they ?

Because if they are selling a service to complement that survey, they want to make money. So they do that by scaring the pants off people. They all do it. You'll never find a damp specialist that sells damp proofing solutions that won't find damp somewhere in your house.

If your buyer is a FTB, then that's what has happened. A seasoned buyer would find a better reason than a cosmetic wall/ceiling coating to knock money off.

g_fella

edgex wrote: »

who did the 'survey'?
are they saying the asbestos is in the artex, or in the insulation above the ceilings?
its all very well having a report saying asbestos, but there are different types, & different courses of action depending on its condition & situation.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/asbindex.htm

http://www.ukas.com/business/indirect/asbestos_surveying_and_testing.asp

some useful info on those links.
was it not picked up on when you had the HIP done?

I've yet to see the full report, I have seen what was passed onto my estate agent. It was only part of the report, and the contents of the email which I mentioned in my original post.

I wont name the company that did the survey, but I can confirm that they are indeed a member UKAS (your 2nd link).

I've yet to see a HIP (dont get me started on that additional tax imposed by the government) that goes into any detail about things like potential asbestos in the artex. Without doing the test, you cant tell. If you can show me a HIP producer that goes into that much detail, then I will use them on my next sale, as there will be nothing left for the solicitors/surveyors etc to do.

Thanks for the links tho, all info helps.

poppysarah

But a surveyor will know the age of the house and possibly comment on there being asbestos which he'll recommend another expert tests and investigates.