Teacher in 6 months, Head teacher in 4 years

lostinrates

poet123 wrote: »

It is a bit like saying that you can be a nurse because you have looked after your own sick child.

More like saying you might have discovered you have an appitude and commitment to wanting to nurse through looking after your own child. Alternatively of course you might hate it so much you know nursing would never be the career for you.

ETA: FWIW I have a very non acedemic subject teching qualification and almost never used it. I did do a fair bit of lecturing in by brief flirt with academia (it was a scholarship and I had to lecture and teach) and while I enjoyed lecturing I know, in contrast I am no teacher.

ANother ETA: a good example might be my DH, (he is also qualified to teach music but IMO would be a kind but terrible teacher!) however, in his very corporate environment there is an option to devote a considerable amount of hours to pro bono work. Some people take this option in inner city schools. Some have spent considerable hours in this sort of role. While not teaching a 'school subject' and not giving them familiarity with things like syllabus/syllabi it would certainly give them the things like managing a class, dealing with the age group.

Davesnave

pandora205 wrote: »

I think 6 months training is woefully inadequate, as is the current PGCE.

Many teachers I have worked with over the years struggle with the complexities of the role. It is rarely subject knowledge that is the problem. It is understanding how to manage large groups of children and young people of varying abilities and levels of motivation, some of whom have significant special educational needs, others may be second language learners. To handle conflict and non-compliance in the classroom requires a set of social skills that are rarely required in adult life.
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So true. Intellect is not enough.

I once failed an Oxford graduate who was doing part of his PGCE in our school. He was obviously very intelligent, but he had almost no ability to empathise with young children, to motivate them, prepare suitable activities and value whatever they did for him. He had six weeks to improve on his initial dismal performance, by following the examples modelled during observation, or though daily assistance & feedback with his own lessons, yet at the end he seemed to have learned nothing.

Although I could not award a pass, the College was reluctant to be so 'harsh,' arguing that as he was a classics scholar, he'd likely be employed by some second-rate prep school and never darken the doors of any state primary. So far as I am aware, he continued and completed his course.

lostinrates

Davesnave wrote: »

So true. Intellect is not enough.

I once failed an Oxford graduate who was doing part of his PGCE in our school. He was obviously very intelligent, but he had almost no ability to empathise with young children, to motivate them, prepare suitable activities and value whatever they did for him. He had six weeks to improve on his initial dismal performance, by following the examples modelled during observation, or though daily assistance & feedback with his own lessons, yet at the end he seemed to have learned nothing.

Although I could not award a pass, the College was reluctant to be so 'harsh,' arguing that as he was a classics scholar, he'd likely be employed by some second-rate prep school and never darken the doors of any state primary. So far as I am aware, he continued and completed his course.

LOL, I imagine there are hoards of applicants like that. I know someone who you could be writing about, and he DID end up in a second rate girl's school and decided after one academic year it wasn't for him and returned to Oxford his own education. He's completing his doctorate this year Tis a big difference IMO, academia and the real world: in schools or business

LydiaJ

lostinrates wrote: »

A good example might be my DH, (he is also qualified to teach music but IMO would be a kind but terrible teacher!) however, in his very corporate environment there is an option to devote a considerable amount of hours to pro bono work. Some people take this option in inner city schools. Some have spent considerable hours in this sort of role. While not teaching a 'school subject' and not giving them familiarity with things like syllabus/syllabi it would certainly give them the things like managing a class, dealing with the age group.

Well, that's exactly my point. The important thing is experience in schools. I would certainly count that kind of previous experience as relevant.

lostinrates wrote: »

Tis a big difference IMO, academia and the real world: in schools or business

Certainly a big difference. Who's to say which world is most real, though? Schools, academia, business, civil service, charitable sector, etc etc. All different, all real IMO.

kelloggs36

I wonder how many ex-bankers would be happy to have to earn 20k for 60-70hours per weeks' work? Yes, it goes up but max on lower threshold of about 30k - much, much less than they would be used to. Holidays? Not when you add up all the extra hours worked at home creating resources, marking, assessing, planning etc.

MrFonzerelli

In my opinion Teachers (or any professional), should be thoroughly supervised for many months before being left alone in the classroom (or workplace). Placing a Professional person (whether they trained for 6months or 5years), into a workplace environment unsupervised, is risky.

Davesnave

lostinrates wrote: »

LOL, I imagine their are hoards of applicants like that. I know someone who you could be writing about, and he DID end up in a second rate girl's school and decided after one academic year it wasn't for him and returned to Oxford his own education. He's completing his doctorate this year Tis a big difference IMO, academia and the real world: in schools or business

Unfortunately, being within two miles of the college, we used to receive more than our fair share of 'lame ducks.' It was easier for the staff there to provide the support/supervision they often needed. They did fail two others I had, and things are definitely tighter now, but in the interests of balance, I should point out that many first rate students also came to teach with me.

Davesnave

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

In my opinion Teachers (or any professional), should be thoroughly supervised for many months before being left alone in the classroom (or workplace).
Placing someone from academia, whether it was for 6months or 5years, into the workplace unsupervised, is risky.

You wouldn't have approved of my student placement in a children's home during the 70s then.

Arrived Monday, and in charge for four hours on Thursday! :eek: Ah, the good old days!

elisebutt65

Davesnave wrote: »

You wouldn't have approved of my student placement in a children's home during the 70s then.

Arrived Monday, and in charge for four hours on Thursday! :eek: Ah, the good old days!

Could have been me last year on my teaching placement - Started on the Wednesday and observed 3 lessons and was teaching 32 students on my own on Thursday morning!!! I was one of the first in my year to complete my 150 hours - most of it the first 3 months as they just used me as sick cover! Got inspected by Ofsted whilst I was there and I got a 1 :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:Probably cos I was doing it properly then!

chunky79

In all honesty i don't want to get into a huge debate but from experience of having a fast track head teacher in my childrens first school, i do not agree with it.
I am not saying all will be as useless as she was, we did have a bad experience, but, there has been huge concern over fast tracked head teachers for years.
I know they have to study and train but is it good enough to be very academic it also seems they to have to rub shoulders in the right circles.

For instance, my children now attend another scool, its run wonderfully but the head is retiring this summer. We the parents have heard (from teachers at this crappy head teachers school) that the old head is being appointed. Although the post was only put up last friday we heard this 2 weeks ago. Is it a back hander, uhm probably. The governers at our school 2 are now governers at the old school. Looks like i will be looking around for a new school.

It has also come to light that she was originally at our school before my children attended and the finances were run into the ground, the school she is at now is alledgedly in financial trouble?

So i know i am coming from a bad experience but i have also had a very good experience of a non fast tracked hed teacher. Also to refer to my own education my head teacher was next to useless, the head that took over 3 years after i left that school had worked at that school for over 10 years and knew it inside out, within 12 months it was completely turned around.

So for me experince is an absolute must.