A&L "Paid Items" Charge

Basil_Fawlty

Hi all, (copy of thread in Warning/Rip-off board)

My mother has a credit card and current account with A&L. The credit card is set to take full payment from the current account by direct debit, around the 20th of the month, after sending her the credit card statement at the start of the month. This allows her to move money into her account via internet banking so there are sufficient funds.

However, this month there was no credit card statement, so she didn't know about the upcoming DD. As a consequence, A&L have charged £25.00 for a "Paid Items Charge" because I guess for around 2 seconds of hard work in "manually intervening" in the account, they somehow lost £25 worth of value.

I've told my mum to phone back with the following points:

• A&L (MBNA) Credit Card Statement was not received
• Ask for refund of Paid Items charge
• Ask for refund of overdraft charges
• Ask to make sure that credit record isn't affected by this as it isn't her fault

She's phoning them now, but do you have any other ideas for this one? I've also told her to say that if they don't refund it all, she'll move to Nationwide which pays interest on incoming money, unlike them, who pay nothing.

Update

She's just phoned them and been told that she can only have half the charge refunded and that she can't speak to a supervisor because they won't discuss this with her. So what are supervisors there for? I think it's obvious that A&L shouldn't be touched with a bargepole.

I told her to phone back again and hopefully get through to someone with a little more common sense. A MSE'r has replied on the Warnings board to say that bank charges may be illegal so could I play this card and what about the overdraft charges/interest which haven't been mentioned yet but I know will be charged at the end of month? :mad: She's always been excellent with paying on time and ensuring sufficient funds. They slip up all the time but when the customer slips up, bam, £25 + £25 + crap customer service. :mad:

Rafter

Call up again and arrange to close the account.

Nationwide card much better if your Mum ever travels overseas.

If your mum has internet banking she should be able to register to see the credit card balance too perhaps?

If you are going to try and reclaim charges as illegal then she will have to move her accounts elsewhere probably anyway. There is about to be a ruling by the office of fair trading about account fees too, so she may have to be quick if they rule that they are legal (although at a lower level of £15 is what the Mail on Sunday was speculating).

R.

grumbler

spaceage wrote:

... this month there was no credit card statement, so she didn't know about the upcoming DD. As a consequence, A&L have charged £25.00 for a "Paid Items Charge" because I guess for around 2 seconds of hard work in "manually intervening" in the account, they somehow lost £25 worth of value.

Statements are sent by usual mail and can be lost by post. This can happen with any CC and any bank. Your mother used the card to spend. She knows her statent date and her payment date. If she hasn't received the statement on time isn't it a good reason to warry a little and to make a phone call to A&L, if she doesn't use online banking?

Basil_Fawlty

grumbler wrote:

Statements are sent by usual mail and can be lost by post. This can happen with any CC and any bank. Your mother used the card to spend. She knows her statent date and her payment date. If she hasn't received the statement on time isn't it a good reason to warry a little and to make a phone call to A&L, if she doesn't use online banking?

Considering that she has noticed twice in about 4 years that the statement hasn't arrived, and in the whole time she has been banking, she's only had one past experience like this, about 6 years ago with a BT Direct Debit, which also happened when the statement went walkies with snail mail, I don't think it is her fault this has happened. The banks are out to screw us over with these excessive charges, but some people are always there siding with the banks. Not their fault they don't see the whole picture. :rolleyes:

Thanks Rafter - they have said that they will get a "Manager" to look into this and contact us by mail, hopefully that will get to us and not get lost too.

grumbler

spaceage wrote:

... twice in about 4 years that the statement hasn't arrived.

1 out of 24. Isn't this enough for her to be more cautious? BTW two my letters sent by Recorded Signed For mail have been lost by Royal Mail recently. I see 'the whole picture'. I know all my CCs spending without any statements. I have all my payment dates marked in my calendar and don't blame banks for Royal Mail falts.

Basil_Fawlty

grumbler wrote:

1 out of 24. Isn't this enough for her to be more cautious? BTW two my letters sent by Recorded Signed For mail have been lost by Royal Mail recently. I see 'the whole picture'. I know all my CCs spending without any statements. I have all my payment dates marked in my calendar and don't blame banks for Royal Mail falts.

I get the feeling that you are an advocate for such charges. Are you?

And in any case, it isn't our fault. Therefore, why should we be held liable?

grumbler

spaceage wrote:

I get the feeling that you are an advocate for such charges. Are you?

You are not the first one. See my Public Profile (click on my name).

And in any case, it isn't our fault. Therefore, why should we be held liable ?

And why should bank be? Anybody paying late by pure negligence (or just because they have no money to pay on time :rolleyes: ) can claim that they have not received the statement. Are you suggesting all statements to be sent by Recorded Signed For mail?

Basil_Fawlty

grumbler wrote:

You are not the first one. See my Public Profile (click on my name). And why should bank be? Anybody paying late by pure negligence (or just because they have no money to pay on time :rolleyes: ) can claim that they have not received the statement. Are you suggesting all statements to be sent by Recorded Signed For mail?

Maybe you should change your attitude instead of being arrogant and saying 'look at my profile'. If you have to say that on your profile then it shows what kind of person you are. And we are not negligent - it's just that not everyone has the time to remember everything all of the time. You can't deny that.

Yes, I am suggesting that all statements are sent by recorded mail. Either that or email, neither of which isn't offered by any credit card company that I have dealings with.

How do you justify a £25 charge then? Do you seriously believe that they have lost £25 in admin charges from a failed DD? :rotfl:

grumbler

spaceage wrote:

Maybe you should change your attitude instead ... saying 'look at my profile'.

What's bad in saying this? At least my profile shows something as opposit to faceless yours ...

If you have to say that on your profile then it shows what kind of person you are.

What kind? Don't be afraid to say this. I will not complain.

And we are not negligent - it's just that not everyone has the time to remember everything all of the time.

Yes, you are. If you have not enough time and spend on credit card, make at least minimum payment by DD and have this small amount available on your bank account.

Yes, I am suggesting that all statements are sent by recorded mail.

I don't want these expenses to be deducted (in one way or another) from the money I make from banks and CC companies. Also I receive dozens of statements and I don't want to go to the Post Office every time a postman tries to deliver this insignificant piece of paper when nobody is at home

Either that or email, neither of which isn't offered by any credit card company that I have dealings with.

Well, then change CC company. Many companies do this. Even MBNA send e-mail alerts.

How do you justify a £25 charge then? Do you seriously believe that they have lost £25 in admin charges from a failed DD?

There are a lot of unfair laws around. The recent example was the law about adverse possession that eventually had been changed in 2002. I believe that the law prohibiting punitive charges is unfair. Why such charges are allowed in other spheres of owr life? I don't like that recently this forum is becoming a branch of www.bankchargeshell.co.uk. It is your choice to have a credit card. It isn't a necessary thing you can't survive without. I prefer playing by rules (even anfair rules) to spending time on chasing and suing banks for unfair (?) charges.:think:

raa_thistle

It has probably cost them £25 to look into this with a manager taking it up (thats got to be an hours pay or close).

If the statement is regular and the payment date is regular then obviously if you don't receive a copy you should investigate. If you were sending someone a bill and they new it was coming, and aproximately how much, you wouldn't be very impresed if they just turned around and said "oh, i didn't get it" would you, so why should the bank?

All of this could have been avoided with a simple phone call asking them to resend a statement as it was not received and to tell you the balance required to ensure the funds were available.

Basil_Fawlty

raa_thistle wrote:

It has probably cost them £25 to look into this with a manager taking it up (thats got to be an hours pay or close).

No. Managers are employed by A&L. It makes no difference whether they are sitting in a chair sipping coffee or looking into this case. Nobody is losing out. How on earth you think that this is costing them money is beyond me. A&L don't have to pay the manager any extra to look into this.

I didn't imagine supposed Moneysavers would be so skewed towards "the banks are always correct, consumers are always wrong" attitude. Martin must be ashamed of you!! :rotfl: