Claiming my bank charges back from the Halifax

Frugal_Fox

Okay, so after reading the tremendous posts from dchurch24 and others about illegal bank charges, I have decided to take a stand against the Halifax.

Whilst I do not want to detract from the enormous value of the original post - and many posters, I do not feel it is the right spot to 'diarise' my attempt!

Certainly I have broken the terms and conditions of my bank account with the Halifax, and I'd be the first to admit that I haven't always been that careful, I am making serious inroads into my debt, and at one stage considered selling our home to repay the debts and rent until able to start again. I've been shown by others on here that that action may not have been the best way to go, and they were right. Anyway - digressing slightly!

Over the past twelve months alone we (its a joint account) have paid over £1500 in bank charges. These mostly stem from a change in salary (lower) and it snowballed from there. Because we got hit for £250 in Bank Charges in one month, it meant we had even less the following month, and it became a vicious spiral. I asked them to delay the presenting of these charges to enable us to sort our finances out. All they offered was a 1 hour review of our finances, so we could see where we had made errors. We knew where we had made errors - we spent money we didn't have and got charged for it. Anyway the charges became a vicious circle, each month we'd have more charges - and so less money the following month to pay other creditors etc, culminating in me wanting to sell our home to repay all our debts.

In the end we took a mortgage break of a month to give us some breathing space, and thankfully we only have the one bank charge this month for going over our agreed overdraft in December. So our account is better - however without all these charges, we wouldn't even have an overdraft on the account, and another debt would have been cleared by now.

So after reading all the posts I plucked up the courage to 'phone them in the first instance. I rang the Halifax this morning regarding the charges, and - as expected, have been told that these charges are valid, however they will agree - as a 'goodwill gesture' to not present the charge for the unauthorised overdraft at the end of this month - a saving of £28. They also offered us a review - so they can help us understand money, and banking better.

On the question on why they authorise card transactions if the account is close to its limit, and the transaction would take the account over the limit, they advised that - at the point of sale, the transactions are NOT authorised by the bank, and that the retailer makes the sale, because the banks GUARANTEE the retailer the funds. Then when the funds are not available the bank pays it anyway, and then charges the customer.

As to why the charge was so high - it does not matter how much you go over, be it £2 or £200 the 'back office' costs are the same. It costs to pay the staff to input the transaction onto the system, and then to see the funds aren't there, and then to generate the letter - and if you are with the Halifax, this process costs £30 for each item.

As to why some transactions are declined at the point of sale and others aren't - it depends on each retailers floor limit - which can range from between £40 - £100, on asked why some transactions for less get declined then, I got no answer.

Right, I'm off to send the first letter to the Head office, asking for my funds over the last 6 years to be returned to me. The stupid thing is, is that really if they'd only offered me half of the original funds, I'd have been more than happy. I broke the terms, no one made me - but their charges are excessive. Now because they have dug their heels in, I will go for the whole lot.

There - feel slightly better now!!

FF

inmypocketnottheirs

Well said! Once they realise you are serious they will probably come back with an offermfor half, which of course you will refuse!!!

Good luck!

japanesegirl

Hi - I have looked at the bank charges web sites and cannot find the copy of the draft letters to send to bank to get charges back. Therefore, what exactly do you do/say and do you need to send them the statements showing the charges or just detail what you are claiming. Do you also ask for the interest connected to the charges. I worked out that mine are £1500 charges and interest for the last 4 years.

What is even more disgusting is that during this period we re-mortgaged and at one point we had £12,000 in the account. They paid us 0.01p in interest, and I think the total they have paid to us on all the occasions we have NOT incurred any charges over the last 4 years total about 0.04p.

Frugal_Fox

Halifax
Trinity Road
Halifax
West Yorkshire
HX1 2RG

20th February 2006

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Sir,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 00000000 SORT CODE: 00-00-00

We have held the above mentioned current account with your bank for the past 6 years. During this time we have incurred charges for exceeding our overdraft limit due to cheques being cleared at unfortunate times, unauthorized overdraft fees, direct debits and standing orders being dishonoured (and in some cases honored) due to insufficient funds.

It is our opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to re-imburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. Further to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable at English law.

Murray v Leisureplay (2004)
Dunlop Tyre Company v New Garage and Motor Co. (1915)
Bridge v. Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962)

Further to these cases, we also believe these charges to be a direct breach of the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 which require that contract terms be reasonable. We do not believe these charges are reasonable as outlined in the aforementioned Act.

With this in mind, we respectfully request that you return to us ALL charges made on this account in the last 6 years within 7 days of receipt of this letter by way of personal cheque. If you choose not to do so, we will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts, as we believe that legally we are entitled to this money back. By doing so, you will be liable for our court costs and for an extra 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984). This money would be used in some way to clear our overdraft on this account.

Further to this, if you decide NOT to accept our offer of settlement of this issue, we would like to make a formal request under the Data Protection Act for a complete and exhaustive list of all charges made on this account over the last 6 years. As you are no doubt aware, you are afforded 40 days to comply with this request or you must request an extension from the Information Commissioner. If you are of any doubt that this information is covered by the act, may we respectfully draw your attention to the case of Durant v FSA 2003 where the judge ruled that bank statement information is indeed personal information and thus covered. In any event, this information is requested with a view to prospective legal action on our part and therefore would be covered under the same Act.

Yours faithfully,




Mr and Mrs Frugal Fox

Frugal_Fox

japanesegirl wrote:

Hi - I have looked at the bank charges web sites and cannot find the copy of the draft letters to send to bank to get charges back. ...

Hi Japenesegirl,l

The website is https://www.bankactiongroup.com

You will need to register in the forums and then all the relevant information is in the LIBRARY section. Even though I have copied my letter above, I would URGE you to check out this website, as in the FAQ there is a list of how to take this action - and if I can follow it, anyone can!

loubie_lou

I wonder if the banks will cotton onto the effect that lots of people are sending the same letter! Do you think they will clamp down on this practice?

japanesegirl

WOW - some letter - thank you for that

Frugal_Fox

loubie_lou wrote:

I wonder if the banks will cotton onto the effect that lots of people are sending the same letter! Do you think they will clamp down on this practice?

As to the same letter, I shouldn't have thought that this would make masses of difference. If the charges are illegal because they are punitive in nature, the letter is not really the issue.

As to clamping down the practice - I sincerely hope so!! I don't want to make scape goats out of the bank. I'm the first to admit I do occassionally possess(sp?) an ostrich head, however I am trying to claw us out of debt. I'm not even asking the banks to stop charging. I just wish they would charge fairly. Indeed my original request to the bank at the time of the charges was not even to 'waiver' them, it was to delay them, to enable me to put our account right. They declined to do this, and proceeded with the charges, which put us into a far worse financial situation.

Anyway - I may not even get anywhere, but least I will know that I have tried.

FF

Frugal_Fox

japanesegirl wrote:

WOW - some letter - thank you for that

I can not take any credit for it - check out the website, there is some tremendous advice on there.

d11wtq

I can quite honestly say that I hate the Halifax with a passion. They are heavy handed, rude, ignorant ***ts. I'm just about to ring them for an ear full now. Hope you get everything you can back from them

devoncat

d11wtq wrote:

I can quite honestly say that I hate the Halifax with a passion. They are heavy handed, rude, ignorant ***ts. I'm just about to ring them for an ear full now. Hope you get everything you can back from them

Let me second that! Halifax are the worst. Good luck.