Public sector monster needs to be tamed

treliac

donaldtramp wrote: »

Treliac
Resorting to insults, how intelligent!

Let me re-phrase that,
The public sector are bleeding the country dry. I pay for the services of the police, fire brigade(so I am more than entitled to use them) and my taxes along with the other workers in this country pick up the tab for the elderly, unemployed and the sick.

It is nowhere near good enough. I know there are less privileged parts of the world but if Britain keeps on down this route we will be joining them. We are all ready well on our way, as we plunge down all the measures of quality of life indexes as published.
If people like me were left to rot, there would be nobody to pay for the public sector. Remember the public sector are public servants and they have got a wee bit above their station.

The day of reckoning is coming.....

I think this is in your mind only, and others of your ilk.

Public sector / servants, call them what you will, are pleased to serve and just want to get on with the work of looking after the public.

My point is that there is a lot of value being provided and you just seem to want to knock everyone, regardless of how hard they work for their country.

A._Badger

treliac wrote: »

I think this is in your mind only, and others of your ilk.

Public sector / servants, call them what you will, are pleased to serve and just want to get on with the work of looking after the public.

My point is that there is a lot of value being provided and you just seem to want to knock everyone, regardless of how hard they work for their country.

The 'of your ilk' is probably a bit more revealing than you'd intended.

No one doubts that some - perhaps even most - PS workers intend well. But that isn't the same as delivering a good service. In many areas, performance is hopelessly inadequate and no amount of bluster can disguise that.

In a lot of respects the front line staff are actually the ones suffering most from the absurd tactics of the government, in particular its obsession with pseudo-management-speak 'targets' and 'standards'. I certainly wouldn't like to be in their shoes.

The UK's economy is unbalanced with some regions reportedly suffering (though some might prefer 'enjoying') a higher level of state employment than was common in the USSR.

That is simply, to use a favourite word of the Left, 'unsustainable'.

treliac

A._Badger wrote: »

The 'of your ilk' is probably a bit more revealing than you'd intended.

No one doubts that some - perhaps even most - PS workers intend well. But that isn't the same as delivering a good service. In many areas, performance is hopelessly inadequate and no amount of bluster can disguise that.

In a lot of respects the front line staff are actually the ones suffering most from the absurd tactics of the government, in particular its obsession with pseudo-management-speak 'targets' and 'standards'. I certainly wouldn't like to be in their shoes.

The UK's economy is unbalanced with some regions reportedly suffering (though some might prefer 'enjoying') a higher level of state employment than was common in the USSR.

That is simply, to use a favourite word of the Left, 'unsustainable'.

I agree with much of your sentiment. Many of the problems that exist are to do with ridiculous targets and bureaucracy. However, the govt just keeps dreaming up new ones. Incredibly demoralising.

Cut unnecessary 'form-filling' etc and the associated costs of staffing etc. Services are being strangled by bureaucracy.

However, a lot of the negative comments on this thread are unremittingly hostile and dismissive of the dedication to duty of a great many workers to their fellow members of society.

A._Badger

treliac wrote: »

I agree with much of your sentiment. Many of the problems that exist are to do with ridiculous targets and bureaucracy. However, the govt just keeps dreaming up new ones. Incredibly demoralising.

Cut unnecessary 'form-filling' etc and the associated costs of staffing etc. Services are being strangled by bureaucracy.

However, a lot of the negative comments on this thread are unremittingly hostile and dismissive of the dedication to duty of a great many workers to their fellow members of society.

Yes, there are some sweeping comments made. That, I suspect, is because people are very frustrated.

It seems clear that much needs to change but no one in contemporary UK politics is putting forward anything even remotely resembling a coherent alternative.

What we get is 'a bit more of the same/a bit less of the same' from all the main parties.

It isn't good enough. and if we aren't careful, that vacuum Nature is said to abhor could be be filled with something very unpleasant.

donaldtramp

I think this is in your mind only, and others of your ilk.

Public sector / servants, call them what you will, are pleased to serve and just want to get on with the work of looking after the public.

My point is that there is a lot of value being provided and you just seem to want to knock everyone, regardless of how hard they work for their country.

I think you're going to get a surprise just how many people there are of my "ilk" next time we get a chance to vote.
We simply do not NEED the numbers of public sector(plus job benefits) that we have in this country. It is self serving job creation and it's very, very expensive for the country.

I do agree that people work really hard and I would never, ever knock people for working hard but the country has been steered in the wrong direction. We need people actually working, creating things and new ideas rather than having a huge proportion of the country serving the other part.

There is absolutely no value to the country in having a USSR style public sector. None whatsoever, as I think I have proved through all the links I've posted up.

A huge proportion of the public sector creates work for itself(and massive costs for the taxpayer) with bureaucracy, red tape and loads of other tripe that our country simply doesn't need. A great deal of it is job creation for job creation sake.

A lot of the comments are,

hostile and dismissive of the dedication to duty

The whole point is that a lot of this "duty" is totally unnecessary and holds our country back and the taxpayer pays through the nose for it.

beingjdc

donaldtramp wrote: »

I thanked your last post as I hope you've came to realise that you should READ studies before you post them up as "evidence":rotfl:
It's quite clear from the conclusion in your "evidence" that the NHS is NOT spending out tax wisely.
Thanks for the link!;)
Nice of you to help prove our point:p

Once more with feeling.

The NHS is not spending 100% of our tax wisely. Nor is it wasting 100% of our tax. I'm not here to argue that public services are run by saints, just ordinary people the vast majority of whom work hard for fairly modest pay.

And, of course, things go wrong. Suppose a Council employs 10,000. Now suppose that in your working life, you on average make one really serious mistake with terrible consequences once every 200 years. Across the Council, that would mean one terrible mistake a week.

The last opinion poll that broke the figures down had Labour getting 36% of the vote among public sector workers by the way, so it's hardly a bloc vote!

Old_Slaphead

treliac wrote: »

Rather too sweeping a statement. I doubt Labour stands any chance of getting back in now. But then again, there's got to be a viable alternative and that's an unknown quantity to gamble on, as things stand.

Not a hope in hell of Labour getting back (even with 100% of public sector vote).

Hardly anyone in private sector has a good word to say about them and the majority of those people losing 'big time' private pensions and savings interest income will not be asking for more of the same.

Thank god that Brown didn't go to the country just after he became PM - think we'd still have another 3.5 years of him !!

As for 'unknown quantity' - isn't that what Labour where in 1997 ?

I'm certainly not (or wasn't) a Tory supporter but they could hardly have done worse. To vote Labour back in would be simply a reward for failure.

Still I'm sure most of the ex MPs will be on brilliant pensions and severance payoffs and, for them it shouldn't be too difficult to find new jobs (2nd hand car salesmen?).

treliac

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

As for 'unknown quantity' - isn't that what Labour where in 1997 ?

Yes, but they had that great orator, Tony Blair.

What we didn't know at the time was that was all he was, the King with no clothes, merely a dishonest, self-promoting, conman.

macaque_2

beingjdc wrote: »

Once more with feeling.

The NHS is not spending 100% of our tax wisely. Nor is it wasting 100% of our tax. I'm not here to argue that public services are run by saints, just ordinary people the vast majority of whom work hard for fairly modest pay.

And, of course, things go wrong. Suppose a Council employs 10,000. Now suppose that in your working life, you on average make one really serious mistake with terrible consequences once every 200 years. Across the Council, that would mean one terrible mistake a week.

The last opinion poll that broke the figures down had Labour getting 36% of the vote among public sector workers by the way, so it's hardly a bloc vote!

No one is suggesting that the NHS is wasting 100% of our tax. The complaint is that the level of waste is unacceptible. Billions are wasted through poor discipline, overmanning, excessive salaries, incompetence and poor management.

I would feel a lot happier if public sector employees like yourself showed an iota of concern about your diabolical performance. Unfortunately you have an excuse for everything. Your solution to every !!!! up is spin, cover up and demands for more money. Wasn't it typical that Haringey's reaction to the baby P incident was to spend £19,000 on media consultants. If that was not enough, they then readvertised the job at £200k (when it could easily be done for £40K). Their cynicism and greed is breathtaking.

Microstar_2

Makes me laugh when I see all this moaning about the 'public sector'. I have always worked for myself (for over 30 years) and I see just as many !!!!!!!!!!s and wasters in the private sector as in the public sector. Think about all the useless, half-witted people working in finance, estate agency etc etc., all those people suckling on the 'big company' teat. I could go on. At least a lot of public sector workers are doing something socially useful (teachers, doctors, researchers).
OTOH I suppose if people think that working in the public sector is so great then they can go and get a job there - big demand for social workers I hear :rotfl: Its only when times get hard that people start thinking public sector jobs are 'good' - like all these throw-outs from the banks who've suddenly decided they want to be teachers and 'give something back' to society. I bet as soon as the jobs market picks up they'll be out of teaching like a shot, I know I would.