500,000 pensioners pay the price for the indebted.

[Deleted User]

MyLastFiver wrote: »

Baby Boomers: - my parents were both born into rationing just after the war, both from working-class families in the north of England - no Carnaby Street up here. Under-educated and under-employed, they worked their fingers to the bone, rose in their careers, brought up kids, rode out double-figure interest rates, strikes, recessions and multiple redundancies, re-educated themselves late

that is us, me and my dh and I will be eternally grateful that we had a spinster teacher at 10 and 11 called miss Kershaw. She dedicated her life to us children and many of her class got to grammar school and became upwardly mobile and able to get away from the games played with a bag of beer bottle tops from the local pub.

My dh was not so lucky at primary and ended up in a real tech and got work at 16. He became a professional and eventually a much respected director consulting engineer

It was all down to sheer hard graft and to parents who encouraged us all the way. That hard graft was ingrained in us and so we worked and saved to enjoy our old age. No real luxuries, no exotic holidays

Now the rug has been pulled from under us

Jennifer_Jane

Fine - my point has always been that Baby Boomers will not take things lying down. Never have, and I hope never will. So I anticipate a 'summer of rage' (which reminds me of the '60's). So, without distractions into anecdotes (and here's mine to stake my claim that I was not born into any kind of privilege: my father died of alcoholism when I was 18 and my childhood was entirely poverty stricken and miserable from a family point of view), I believe that the Baby Boomers are a bunch of people who will fight to uphold standards.

I have not been saying that baby boomers have had it easy.

And MyLastFiver: yes, these were the same for everyone in the UK - I never said that we had things easy. I was talking about my opinion that Baby Boomers won't take things lying down - whereas my parent's generation may well do - partly for age and energy reasons and partly because of their stoicism, which I don't believe Baby Boomers have.

Jen
x

jay3_2

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Would you like to elaborate on why you think it is unworthy ?

It's the name-calling bit "brown-nose leftie" that I don't find helpful - imho it detracts from your argument.

GeorgeHowell

jay3 wrote: »

It's the name-calling bit "brown-nose leftie" that I don't find helpful - imho it detracts from your argument.

I actually said "Brown-nosing", which is perhaps a rather weak play on words, reflective of the fact that Cooper and her husband Balls are close allies of Brown, and can always be relied upon to be "on message" for whatever he wants said, or not said. Regarding 'leftie', I don't think there can be much doubt that's what she is. I make no apology for it being a pejorative term for those of a left-leaning and liberal persuasion, because such people, in the guise of the Labour Party, have brough the country to its knees -- again.

GeorgeHowell

Regarding Baby Boomers, we are arguably the lucky generation (so far) because, among other things :-

We have not had to experience a major war.

We all had the chance of a good state education, and many of us actually benefited from one.

The considerable majority of us could get a decent job on finishing education.

Many of us benefited from the 'jobs for life' culture.

Many of us have, or will, benefit from final salary pensions.

Our cultural heritage was outstanding -- we were kids in the gentle Fifties, teenagers in the swinging Sixties, and young adults in the glitzy Seventies.

Compared to that, today's young people have the following advantages and disadvantages :-

A generally poor, dumbed down, state education.

The real threat of long term unemployment.

The threat of penury in old age.

but also

Likelihood of being bailed out financially by parents indefinitely.

Everything an anything they ask for as children -- eg a parent funded car at 17 years of age is almost de rigeur.

Almost total freedom and permissiveness (not really such an advantage but no doubt seems like it at the time).

I reckon that overall it probably about breaks even. But that in itself a bit sobering because for the last 200 years each generation has probably been that much better off materially and in terms of quality of life than the previous one. Over a longer period of history, however, societal plateaux, setbacks, and regressions have occurred (look at the Dark Ages). It's too soon to tell whether we may be entering another such period, but some worrying signs are evident. I'm certainly glad to have lived through the lifespan that I have lived through rather than the equivalent period yet to come.

Bogof_Babe

I agree George. There is a lot more pressure on the current younger generation, being expected almost automatically to get into University whether they are suited to it or not, and to add insult to injury they have to pay their own way and leave with huge debts.

Also things like Facebook, mobile phones etc., mean that they never have time to just be themselves.

Of course they do have the advantage of such miracles of technology that we never had, but that can perhaps be a mixed blessing.

Like you, I wouldn't want to be 20 again nowadays.

Sapphire

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Regarding Baby Boomers, we are arguably the lucky generation (so far) because, among other things :-

We have not had to experience a major war.

We all had the chance of a good state education, and many of us actually benefited from one.

The considerable majority of us could get a decent job on finishing education.

Many of us benefited from the 'jobs for life' culture.

Many of us have, or will, benefit from final salary pensions.

Our cultural heritage was outstanding -- we were kids in the gentle Fifties, teenagers in the swinging Sixties, and young adults in the glitzy Seventies.

Compared to that, today's young people have the following advantages and disadvantages :-

A generally poor, dumbed down, state education.

The real threat of long term unemployment.

The threat of penury in old age.

but also

Likelihood of being bailed out financially by parents indefinitely.

Everything an anything they ask for as children -- eg a parent funded car at 17 years of age is almost de rigeur.

Almost total freedom and permissiveness (not really such an advantage but no doubt seems like it at the time).

I reckon that overall it probably about breaks even. But that in itself a bit sobering because for the last 200 years each generation has probably been that much better off materially and in terms of quality of life than the previous one. Over a longer period of history, however, societal plateaux, setbacks, and regressions have occurred (look at the Dark Ages). It's too soon to tell whether we may be entering another such period, but some worrying signs are evident. I'm certainly glad to have lived through the lifespan that I have lived through rather than the equivalent period yet to come.

I agree with all the above, apart from the bit about benefitting from final salary pensions. I know very few people in the 'baby boomer' group who will benefit from such pensions – or who have had 'jobs for life'. Perhaps it depends on the profession and the type of operation you are in. Mine is editorial (so private, not public sector ).

Given a choice, I would much rather be a part of the 'baby boomer' group than of the 'today's young people' group – not least because I find the experiences of the former so much more interesting than those of the latter, especially when it comes to culture …

lostinrates

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

....

Likelihood of being bailed out financially by parents indefinitely.

Everything an anything they ask for as children -- eg a parent funded car at 17 years of age is almost de rigeur.

Almost total freedom and permissiveness (not really such an advantage but no doubt seems like it at the time).

I reckon that overall it probably about breaks even. But that in itself a bit sobering because for the last 200 years each generation has probably been that much better off materially and in terms of quality of life than the previous one. Over a longer period of history, however, societal plateaux, setbacks, and regressions have occurred (look at the Dark Ages). It's too soon to tell whether we may be entering another such period, but some worrying signs are evident. I'm certainly glad to have lived through the lifespan that I have lived through rather than the equivalent period yet to come.

I agree it probably breaks out even, but I also think that the increase of availabilty of state benefit, and the development of things like tax credit has added to and even created a problem with taking responsibilty and, among those who do step up, a feeling of unfairness.

I am sure there are baby boomers who won't identify with the undeniable key features of that period of time and likewise I bought my own car, and DH never has owned his own, my parent's would bail me out, I know they would, and they've had me live at home, which certainly has been amazing, but I hope never to pose them a financial issue.

My parents would argue they lost out in majority of thier planned pension....thanks to Robert Maxwell, but they'll do better than we expect to I guess.

mewbie_2

Kid's today have always had it too easy. Possibly since time began. We spoil them and then resent them for it. They in turn show no gratitude. Why should they? "Didn't ask to be born".

cont. p. 94

GeorgeHowell

Sapphire wrote: »

I agree with all the above, apart from the bit about benefitting from final salary pensions. I know very few people in the 'baby boomer' group who will benefit from such pensions – or who have had 'jobs for life'. Perhaps it depends on the profession and the type of operation you are in. Mine is editorial (so private, not public sector ).

…

Fair point. I was also private sector, but was fortunate enough to benefit on both counts. Perhaps I was a bit too gung ho on that point, but I believe that a higher proportion of Baby Boomers will have so benefited than will today's young generation.