Could we be turned down by the court?

blackbird2609

Hi all.
We plan to go bankrupt end of april. We own about £54.000 and are on a debt mangement plan with cccs for over a year now. Our surplus and repayments are £500 every month but only a few creditors out of 13 have cut the interest. Last year we paid £6000 into the plan but only got down by £2000 with our debts. I talked to cccs about our plan to go bankrupt and they said that with our income and repayments, the court will not accept us and throw the case out. Apparently if you are able to repay within ten years you are not accepted for bankruptcy. Can anybody please put some light on the rules please?

tigerfeet2006

The advisor you were talking to was talking out of thier !!!!. They have a dedicated BR team who would advise you properly.

Pop up your SoA and we will check it for you and see what it would look like for BR.

Use this template, format it for MSE and copy and paste it here.

http://www.makesenseofcards.co.uk/soacalc.html

philnicandamy

Hmm some very "iffy" advice of late......looks like cccs need to tighten up on training

blackbird2609

Ok here we go. Didn't realise how high our surpluse really is :eek: .
So I suppose they could turn us down, but I just like to sort it and pay for 3 years and start fresh as to wait 10 years.




Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household.........
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details[/b]
Monthly income after tax................ 1700
Partners monthly income after tax....... 1000
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2700
Monthly Expense Details[/b]
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured loan repayments................. 0
Hire Purchase (HP) repayments........... 0
Rent.................................... 725
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 130
Electricity............................. 75
Gas..................................... 60
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 45
Telephone (land line)................... 20
Mobile phone............................ 50
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 400
Clothing................................ 80
Petrol/diesel........................... 70
Road tax................................ 20
Car Insurance........................... 20
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 30
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 32
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 10
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 15
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 20
Haircuts................................ 20
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 30
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1864

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 1400
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 1400

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Total debs.....................54000.....500.......0
Total unsecured debts..........54000.....500.......-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,700
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,864
Available for debt repayments........... 836
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 500
Amount left after debt repayments....... 336
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 1,400
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -54,000
Net Assets.............................. -52,600
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.[/font]

tomterm8

Are you in default on any of these loans?

The operational definition of insolvancy is that liabilities are greater than assets, AND you are unable to meet repayments when due. Looking at your surplus it seems like you can meet the repayments as they fall due. Is that the case?

If it is, you aren't insolvent. In which case, bankruptcy is not an option.

On the other hand, if any of your creditors has defaulted you, and demanded early repayment of a debt you aren't able to repay immediatly, then you are insolvent and bankruptcy is an option.

blackbird2609

tomterm8 wrote: »

Are you in default on any of these loans?

The operational definition of insolvancy is that liabilities are greater than assets, AND you are unable to meet repayments when due. Looking at your surplus it seems like you can meet the repayments as they fall due. Is that the case?

If it is, you aren't insolvent. In which case, bankruptcy is not an option.

On the other hand, if any of your creditors has defaulted you, and demanded early repayment of a debt you aren't able to repay immediatly, then you are insolvent and bankruptcy is an option.

Yep we are on default on all of the creditors. If we pay them all the full amount we have to pay is £1800 each month. The £500 is the repayment to cccs and they spread it out.

tomterm8

Then the court can't refuse you, as long as you have taken advise.

tigerfeet2006

blackbird2609 wrote: »

Ok here we go. Didn't realise how high our surpluse really is :eek: .
So I suppose they could turn us down, but I just like to sort it and pay for 3 years and start fresh as to wait 10 years.




Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household.........
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details[/b]
Monthly income after tax................ 1700
Partners monthly income after tax....... 1000
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2700
Monthly Expense Details[/b]
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured loan repayments................. 0
Hire Purchase (HP) repayments........... 0
Rent.................................... 725
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 130
Electricity............................. 75
Gas..................................... 60
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 45
Telephone (land line)................... 20 Phone and mobile is £60 max. so pop these 2 together.
Mobile phone............................ 50
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 400
Clothing................................ 80
Petrol/diesel........................... 70 is it really this low?
Road tax................................ 20
Car Insurance........................... 20
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 30
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 32
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 10
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 15
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 20
Haircuts................................ 20
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 30 £50
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1864

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 1400
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 1400

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Total debs.....................54000.....500.......0
Total unsecured debts..........54000.....500.......-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,700
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,864
Available for debt repayments........... 836
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 500
Amount left after debt repayments....... 336
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 1,400
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -54,000
Net Assets.............................. -52,600
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.[/font]

Get some breakdown cover. Is car insurance fully comp? Do you pay any professional fees? Dry cleaning £10. Is contents insurance with accidental damage?

Are you both going BR?

blackbird2609

Many thanks for your help here. Yeah car is fully comp, insurance is without accident damage so have to update that one. Petrol? Well it could be £90 some month, it really depends. Yeah we both want to do it together and have our date set for the 24 april. Gives enough time to save up the money and do the papers. Will phone the nationel debtline this week and try again cccs. I do realise the point cccs is doing but at the moment I can't see us getting it paid within ten years. CCCS just said the judge will def turn it down and the fee will be lost :eek: . So I need to !!!!!! deeper and find out.

tigerfeet2006

I have seen people with £700 surplus go BR, you will just have to pay into an IPA.

If both going BR then you need to do seperate SoA's so things could look a tad different.

On each SoA you put the joint household bills eg: rent/mortgage, utilities, council tax. Then you put your own personal expenses eg: travel, medical, hair.

Then on each SoA you put your full income and your OH's contribution to the joint household bills.

Hope that doesn't confuse you to much. Try it, you may have some different figures.

Have a read of the Bankruptcy Help sticky as well.

Zandytobedebtfree

blackbird2609 wrote: »

Ok here we go. Didn't realise how high our surpluse really is :eek: .
So I suppose they could turn us down, but I just like to sort it and pay for 3 years and start fresh as to wait 10 years.




Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household.........
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details[/b]
Monthly income after tax................ 1700
Partners monthly income after tax....... 1000
Benefits................................ 0
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2700
Monthly Expense Details[/b]
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured loan repayments................. 0
Hire Purchase (HP) repayments........... 0
Rent.................................... 725
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 130
Electricity............................. 75 This seems very high, do you really pay this much, I pay £60 for 2 Adults & 3 Kids!
Gas..................................... 60 Again, seems high for 2 Adults
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 45
Telephone (land line)................... 20
Mobile phone............................ 50 Remove and increase phone to £60
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 400
Clothing................................ 80 Could put this up to £110
Petrol/diesel........................... 70
Road tax................................ 20
Car Insurance........................... 20
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 30
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 32
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 10
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 15
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 20 Not allowed, but leave in and see if OR lets you keep it!
Haircuts................................ 20
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 30
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1864

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 1400
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 1400

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Total debs.....................54000.....500.......0
Total unsecured debts..........54000.....500.......-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,700
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,864
Available for debt repayments........... 836
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 500
Amount left after debt repayments....... 336
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 1,400
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -54,000
Net Assets.............................. -52,600
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.[/font]

Hi - I have made some suggestions for you HTH