Self Select ISA and SIPP

barrooo

Thanks for the update Tradetime, very interesting reading. It seems strange that some instuments are quoted but you are unable to trade on line, especially as they have a 'Trading ISA', you would have thought that you could filter any instruments allowed in the ISA wrapper instead of having to phone to confirm if it was allowable.

On the subjest of your FX conversion, thank you for that detailed explanation, had I not seen it explained so well I never would have imagined your rates to be so shockingly bad. This might look great for someone who's only experience of FX is the high street holiday money bucket shops, but for someone who trades FX from time to time your spread expressed in pips is a monster in trading terms.

This bit amused me no end, 100 pip spread for a currency conversion, no thanks

tradetime

barrooo wrote: »

Thanks for the update Tradetime, very interesting reading. It seems strange that some instuments are quoted but you are unable to trade on line, especially as they have a 'Trading ISA', you would have thought that you could filter any instruments allowed in the ISA wrapper instead of having to phone to confirm if it was allowable.



This bit amused me no end, 100 pip spread for a currency conversion, no thanks

Yes precisely, she tells me there is no criteria for what can be held in an ISA, I find that hard to believe, as without any criteria there would be chaos, how could their dealer know whether to allow a trade or not, she did not respond to the FX comment, although in fairness what would there be to say, it is what it is, no point in trying to defend it. I have requested to go above her fo further clarification as I was told over the phone totally different things, so we see what comes of that, I'd just like them to make it clear on their website that there may be certain limitations so people could thrash them out ahead of time. I have already abandoned the idea of trading US issues, in the ISA and am now researching all the equivalent LSE listed, though the choice is greatly reduced.

tradetime

As they say on TV. "Tonight the concluding episode of" T.D. Waterhouse a Trading ISA.

Dear XXX XXXX

Thank you for your reply, and I apologize in advance as no doubt my reply will sound somewhat rude but I really feel there is no way round that, as it seems what we have here is a failure to communicate. You are quite correct, it really is confusing, but a considerable amount of that could be attributed to the fact that as an organization the left hand does not appear to know what the right is doing. I have as you suggested called your customer service prior to this series of e-mail correspondence. During two separate calls I was told that it was possible to hold US listed ETF's within an ISA, "provided they are listed on a recognized exchange" to quote precisely, but in fairness the gentleman said it would depend on what they were, however one of the ETF's discussed at that time was the United States Oil Fund; Ticker symbol USO, which trades on the NYSEArca at the time this was not a problem.


Further to that I was told that I was unable to place orders online for such securities, but that I could telephone such orders in and they would be chaged at online rates, clearly this is in complete contradiction to your response, thus one can hardly be surprised if it "may seem confusing" wouldn't you be confused?

"There is no criteria for determining which other ETF'S can be held."

This would probably explain some of the confusion, if there are no citeria to determine what can be held in an ISA how would anyone know for sure, that would no doubt explain the comment by the gentleman on the telephone that "it would depend what it is." I can invisage a group huddle while a squad average is taken as to whether it can be held or not, or perhaps a coin toss.

If you cannot hold US ETF's in an ISA then that is a criterion. No US listed ETF's.The only question remaining then would be, is that an ISA criterion or a T.D. Waterhouse one.


"You can trade some ETF'S on line and any that are not available online may be tradeable via the telephone but this will be at telephone rates."

Call me old fashioned, but if you set up in business to provide a service online, and then inconvenience the customer by forcing him to use the telephone to achieve that service, then the original service is at fault, not the customer, where you get the idea that he should pay extra for the inconvenience could also be described as somewhat confusing, whilst it may add to the profit margins, it certainly does not constitute good customer service. Perhaps you could direct me to where on your website it explains that after you have opened your account, you may find that we don't actually allow you to trade some listed issues so you'll have to phone up and we can gouge a few more pounds out of you for the pleasure? (Rhetorical question) If I wanted a telephone broker then I would have taken my business to one




"With regards to obtaining a price quote, if you click on the stock name and then click on a different part of the page the quote should appear, please let me know if this has answered the question."



Sorry, I'm nort even sure who this is directed at, I did not ask about price quotes, I actually stated I have my own thanks.


So, to summarise;

According to the telephone customer service "It is possible to hold certain US listed ETF's in my ISA, provided they are listed on a recognised exchange, although I will be unable to purchase them online, however for such issues I can make the order over the telephone and in this instance be charged online prices."

According to e-mail customer service "You can not trade any US ETF'S within the ISA wrapper therefore all the stock you have mentioned do not qualify o be held within the ISA wrapper. You can trade some ETF'S on line and any that are not available online may be tradeable via the telephone but this will be at telephone rates. "


Since you both seem like very nice people it troubles me to say this, but I think even you'd agree, one of you does not know what they are talking about, so I would respectfully request you pass this to your customer service manger who can perhaps supply some definitive facts.





Regards, XXX XXXX

and in response, again promptly in fairnes we have a definitive position.

XXX XXXX

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate your frustration with regards to US ETF's. It is a TD Waterhouse decision not to allow US ETF's to be traded within an ISA account. Any UK ETF's which are not available to be traded online but can be traded over the telephone are charged at telephone rates. There has been some confusion over this and only this week a communication has been sent to ALL representatives clearly stating that these trades are charged at telephone rates.

Any UK ETF'S which do qualify to be held within an ISA are added to the qualifying list as they are required. The UK ETF'S which can not be traded on line are ETF's which are traded on the LSE in a foreign currency.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to call us on 0845 607 6001, Monday to Friday, 07.30 - 21.00 and Saturday 09.00 - 15.00.

Yours sincerely

XXX XXXX
Customer Service Representative

So in summary, if you want to include US listed ETF's in your ISA, then T.D. Waterhouse is not the one for you. If you wish to include ETF's listed on the LSE that are priced in a foreign currency, then be aware you will incur telephone prices for these, which are close to double the online rate, so factor that into your costing model.

barrooo

Thanks for posting all this, it seems I may have to settle for purely London listings. I fear it may be too much hassle to keep checking if foreign funds,ETFs etc are allowed in the ISA wrapper.

tradetime

barrooo wrote: »

Thanks for posting all this, it seems I may have to settle for purely London listings. I fear it may be too much hassle to keep checking if foreign funds,ETFs etc are allowed in the ISA wrapper.

You're welcome, it is my view now that trading foreign currency denominated ETF's (US listed ETF's are simply not available) through this ISA wrapper is both too much hassle and likely cost prohibitive, these brokers overcharge for transactions in the first place, this one then adds on about a 3% surcharge on foreign currency exchange and provides a Mickey Mouse service to top it all off. Might be worth checking a few other provider to see if this is the exception or the rule