Are you preparing for economic collapse?

Davesnave

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Biodiesel is the most feasible alternative. Algae is not impossible but Ive been reading about it a few years now and unfortunately its still the ideal crop but not usable every day

Compared to hydrogen and other fancy stuff, the idea of biodiesel could be used tomorrow. Some cars will take a litre of sunflower oil in their tanks no problem or rapeseed which of course is a British crop we could grow.

All well & good, but what would the seed crops be fertilized with? Ah, yes, chemical fertilizers based on mineral oils. I can't see we'd go organic for bio-diesel, in the short term.

Jonbvn

HammerSmashedFace wrote: »

I have enough pasta to last many years.

You always come across more like a guy with 5,000 tins of beans in your shed.;)

Jonbvn

Cleaver wrote: »

One of my favourite posts ever on here. Completely brilliant for a whole number of reasons.

I'd like to see it in Martin's Moneysaving Tips Newsletter.

It is no surprise why MSE Martin keeps this forum on a tight leash.

tomterm8

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Biodiesel is the most feasible alternative. ...
The downside is the efficiency of doing this.

The downside is that the land that is used to grow biodiesel crops can't be used to grow food crops, and when you take out even a small percentage of food crop for use in biodiesel production basic food commodity prices will soar, meaning people in the third world won't be able to feed themselves.

Davesnave

nitr02007 wrote: »

I'm working on a longer time frame and within the next 10 years I want to have moved out of town into a cottage with some land, and be as far as possible self sufficient.

Population increase, diminishing resources and an exponential growth economy cannot be made to work - eventually something will have to give.

Hmm....see my original post on this thread, when I was still seeking the sort of place you are talking about. No cottage though; I prefer cavity wall construction anyway!

I've taken thinking about these matters a stage further now and bought into being semi-self sufficient. Mind you, we're a long way from there ATM, as it's no five minute job; more like five or ten years.

Also, if people are to become more self reliant, I can see now that they need to band together, not sit in a bunker with their stash. You can look at some wonderful family on TV doing all the different tasks, but in the real world, if you try to be your own builder, plumber, electrician, farmer, gardener, woodman and general dogsbody, after being an office manager or something, what you tend to end up with is a lot of bodged jobs and a hernia! That's if you are lucky; lopping the odd limb off with a chain saw for the less fortunate. It is easy being 'green!':rotfl:

When you begin living outside of the towns, it becomes clear that in the countryside there's already a local network of micro-businesses, where people cater for each others needs, many of them out of the recorded economy. It is easier to see on this scale how folks are inter-dependent, but it doesn't always mean that all survive in business. Look at rural pubs, and POs, for example.

StevieJ

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Biodiesel is the most feasible alternative. Algae is not impossible but Ive been reading about it a few years now and unfortunately its still the ideal crop but not usable every day

Well Exxon have joined Shell in taking Algae seriously, I think it is horses for courses but the development of alternatives, can stretch the lifecycle of oil way past the current predictions from the pessmists.

According to Exxon, algae could yield more than 2,000 gallons of fuel per acre of production each year, compared with 650 gallons for palm trees and 450 gallons for sugar canes. Corn yields just 250 gallons per acre a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/business/energy-environment/14fuel.html

nitr02007

Davesnave wrote: »

Hmm....see my original post on this thread, when I was still seeking the sort of place you are talking about. No cottage though; I prefer cavity wall construction anyway!

I've taken thinking about these matters a stage further now and bought into being semi-self sufficient. Mind you, we're a long way from there ATM, as it's no five minute job; more like five or ten years.

Also, if people are to become more self reliant, I can see now that they need to band together, not sit in a bunker with their stash. You can look at some wonderful family on TV doing all the different tasks, but in the real world, if you try to be your own builder, plumber, electrician, farmer, gardener, woodman and general dogsbody, after being an office manager or something, what you tend to end up with is a lot of bodged jobs and a hernia! That's if you are lucky; lopping the odd limb off with a chain saw for the less fortunate. It is easy being 'green!':rotfl:

When you begin living outside of the towns, it becomes clear that in the countryside there's already a local network of micro-businesses, where people cater for each others needs, many of them out of the recorded economy. It is easier to see on this scale how folks are inter-dependent, but it doesn't always mean that all survive in business. Look at rural pubs, and POs, for example.

I totally agree - a rural community would be the ideal situation. We'll be here in this (lovely) flat for the next 5 years at least, and then we'll be looking for a property with land so we can at least grow/produce some of our own food, and trade and work with the community for things we can't do ourselves.

People who say that its doom mongering to look to the future and see some sort of collapse - I can only say that oil touches almost every aspect of our current way of life and we take cheap, plentiful energy for granted. However oil is a finite resource and it will run out. I would be overjoyed if there was a breakthough with fusion power - the only real solution to the energy crisis - but as it stands its still a long way off (2050).

Its not like life is going to continue merrily on its way until all the oil is gone - as soon we reach the point where demand out-strips the supply there will be some hard choices to make on what industries will take priority and I'd guess that fuel for personal transport will be one of the first things to be rationed or see huge price rises, especially as its also in line with the UN's dogma on Climate Change.

treliac

HammerSmashedFace wrote: »

Can't believe I've missed this thread, it's right up my street.:D

Civilisation in it's current form will cease to exist .............. At this time I believe a better more sustainable future will grow from the ashes of the ponzi scheme scheme of infinite growth that we all (well most people) feel is sustainable indefinitely.

A post from fc123, in another thread, explains why the human race is driven to want more and more:-

The essence is that humans are wired to want more and more of whatever 'just in case' so we are wired to never be totally satisfied.

See full post and book that promotes the theory:-

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=28618179&postcount=464

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enough-Breaking-Free-World-More/dp/0340935928/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263062562&sr=1-1

sabretoothtigger

food commodity prices will soar, meaning people in the third world won't be able to feed themselves.

assuming the dollar stays strong, thats pretty much the case.

novazombie

Yoshua wrote: »

What if all the electric and water stops working. people are starving and short of water, are you going to help everyone and what about the next day when you have no water for your family?

Its all very well saying I will help people but what about the next day when you are desperate?


I will happily trade what I have for something I want but if someone trys to take from me without my permission then I will use my firearms to protect my stores.

I also have a crossbow and sorn off shotgun.



I have a very sort after small holding with fruit and nut trees also veg growing. In the future hope to have chickens maybe a goat for milk and keep pigs for fattening up and eating.

My point is when people get hungry they seem to think they are entitled to what others have just because they think they need it. Thats why its better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun a not have it.


I also have an old fashioned well which along with collected rain water can provide for my family if mains water stops working. I will sell this water in these hard times to come but also I will protect this well with lethal force if necessary.

Why is everyone on about getting some land in the country. If there is no money to pay police and things go to rat !!!!!!, then you are better off living near the city where you can form groups for protection.
Its the rich houses in the country that will get attacked by marouding gangs of black leather bikers raping and torturing.