Economy 7 excessive bills - Help!!

onesocklizzie

Hello everyone,

I live in a two bed semi with double glazing. I'm on the economy 7 tariff with southern electric. I have night storage heaters but (as an electrician checked out for me) my hot water isn't cheaper at night. I'm struggling with bills at the moment in between £85 and £105 every four weeks. I don't have a washing machine, make sure to turn off lights,tv's etc and there's only one adult and child in our home. Does this seem excessive to you??
I have phoned southern electric a few times but they've been really quite unhelpful. I'm willing to do whatver i can - any ideas appreciated

espresso

The first thing that you need to do, is to take meter readings and then take them every week to see exactly how many kWh you are using each week, for both day and night units.

Then by doing simple calculations, using these figures and the unit costs from your bill of your day and night units, you will see what your actual electricity cost is per week.

The amount that you are paying Southern Electric, is likely to be recovering what you owe them and is not necessarily related to your actual weekly usage.

When you know more about your usage and your suppliers cost for day and night units, you may be able to find a cheaper supplier to switch to.

Cardew

I cannot understand why your water is not heated on Economy 7. Do you have an Immersion heater? (tank in an airing cupboard?)

As espresso states you possibly have a debt which is being paid off.

onesocklizzie

Thanks,

I moved to the house in May last year and the electricity company were informed. I've been making regular payments to the meter (don't think i mentioned the meter before) of £25 a week so I cannot understand how I have accrued a debt to them???!!
I think it is an immersion heater - tank is in the eaves.
Will take those readings !!!

paul_h

It sounds that you are on a pre-payment meter, so you should not have any debt to the supplier, although your payments do sound excessive. If at all possible, consider changing to a standard meter and quartely billing, as it's usually a cheaper tariff.

Firstly, check your kWh usage, as suggested.

Your tank in the eaves - If you mean that your HW cylinder (tank) is in the loft, make sure that it is heavily insulated. A poorly insulated cylinder in the roof void will absolutely eat electricity in the winter, especially if the immersion heater is used all day.

If you think the cylinder needs extra insulation, good quality insulation jackets (or maybe add two in the loft) can be purchased quite cheaply at DIY stores.

While someone's up there, check the loft for insulation, and consider adding more if it's inadequate (or talk to your landlord if a tenant). Storage heaters will use more electricity if the property is poorly insulated - the overnight charging is controlled by a themostat in the heater core, it takes more electricity to fully charge the heater if the ambient temperature falls rapidly at night, as happens in a poorly insulated property. Of course you will also feel more benefit from the heaters during the daytime with an adequately insulated property.

HTH

blu_3

To challenge your supplier you need 7 days meter reading of both day and night unit rates. With dates and times they were taken, be sure to take them at the same time each time you do this. Be honest with these unit readings, and don't try and use less power for the sake of the readings. Because in the end it is you that still pays the bill, and not being correct will make a bigger bill at some other time. Which may lead your supplier to use the bigger bill as a basis for all future bills.

Altough its not unknown for some people to give under estimated figures and give them to the utility company in the winter. Then ask for a bill to be sent. Then do the same in the summer as use less electricity then, this bill will make up for the winter useage. Again this could lead to a future bill basis, which suits many people.


Find out your day and night rates

For the following numbers one to ten, use your electricity as you normaly would do every day.

1. Day 1... Phone your supplier and ask what is their official night time hours for economy7. First make a note of the R1 (Rate1) and R2 (Rate2) units on the economy7 electric meter. Make also a note of the time and date you take the meter unit readings.

2. Make sure you know what your night and day rate is R1 - R2. Not all meters have the same rate for night and day.

3. Check the economy7 electric meter during the day between 10am to 7pm to see what the day rate really is. It usually flashes, on the rate that is active, and some say 'NOW' near the flashing rate.

4. To test if it is the true day rate, boil a kettle until you see either, R1 or R2 numbers increase. This will be your day rate, remember this or make a note of it. Also make a note of the units of both the R1 and R2 rates.

Test to determine approx how many units you use each day.

5. Set your water heater timer to the correct time of the day.

6. Night One... Keep an eye on the water heater timer to see when it's light comes on. Could be between 10pm to 1am or earlier. When you see it come on quickly go and check your meter, to see if it has changed to to the night rate. If the night rate is showing then you are getting cheap water heating at the night rate. Make a note of the day units used when the night rate has started.

Note: If the rate hasn't changed from the day rate to the night rate. Your water heater timer will need urgent adjustment, to save money. If it is a digital timer it needs setting up correctly, to save money.

7. Day 2.... Make a note of the night units used from the previous night.

8. Night Two... Make sure the water heater is turned of by the water heater timer before your know night rate starts. Make a note of the day units used on the electric meter. Make a note of the day units used when the night rate has started.

9. Day 2.... Make a note of the night units used from the previous night.

10. Now you will have day units used and you will have night units used with and without the water heater. Use the unit figures to determine if it is the water heating or the storage heaters that is using the most units. You know the cost of each kWh unit on your last bill, you can work out if your supplier is right or wrong. Many suppliers will and do use estimations that are very high.

onesocklizzie

Thank you so much for your help, I'll crack on with the readings.... The only problem I have is that there is no water timer - just an emmersion switch - like a plug switch but without the plug.....

irnbru_2

onesocklizzie wrote:

Thank you so much for your help, I'll crack on with the readings.... The only problem I have is that there is no water timer - just an emmersion switch - like a plug switch but without the plug.....

If your renting the cost may be prohibitive but an electrician can change your immersion switch to a timer one Might be worth asking on the DIY boards what the costs could be.

espresso

onesocklizzie wrote:

Thank you so much for your help, I'll crack on with the readings.... The only problem I have is that there is no water timer - just an emmersion switch - like a plug switch but without the plug.....

Well without a time switch you are in control, so try to cut back on the amount of time that you have it switched on i.e. put it on for a while before you need the hot water as it should say hot for quite a while depending on the insulation on the tank.

I have no experience of pre-payment meters but you may be able to save yourself some money by viewing this thread when you have worked out what you are actually paying.

tubster

If you are looking into a time switch for your immersion, they are pretty cheap and are easy to install. I have got one that will turn on the tank for up to 7 hours at night and has emergency power to keep the timer going in a power cut and a boost switch which gives you an hour more whenever you wish (if you can get to it of course - I hope your existing switch isn't in the attic!) - the Horstman economy 7 immersion timer. It costs £55 from screwfix.com; if you want it I will send you one that I don't need for £35. I wired mine in myself - it needs to be put in after the fused switch that should be on there already - it shouldn't be more than an hour of work for an electrician. You might be able to find cheaper simple timer switches, but make sure they can handle up to 3kw (or whatever your heater is rated at - should be written on it somewhere). I would say that the water heater sounds like the problem. Take your readings for a day, turn off the heater for day and compare - you should be able to work out the percentage of energy it uses.
If it is the heater, you can insulate it very cheaply and there are grants available if you have a low income - check out this very long link http://www.direct.gov.uk/Bfsl1/BenefitsAndFinancialSupport/BenefitsAndFinancialSupportArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10018946&chk=TCfmAC
I just got a warm front grant which covered over £1000 of work
You could also think about changing supplier - see Martin's page on electricity for info - if you pay a lot, you could save a lot. You need to look carefully at whether it is worth changing from prepay. These are the rates for British Gas (house) fixed til 2007:
monthly direct debit first 225kwh per quarter, day 13.845; after that day 8.808; night 1.887
quarterly cash or cheque 15.287, 8.808 and 1.887
prepayment 8.716, 8.213, 3.347

so day rate is actually a bit cheaper, but night rate is quite a bit more - and it will be different for your supplier. You need to know how many units of day and night you use on average to work it out. Do you enjoy maths? :mad: Luckily the comparison sites should give you a rough comparison - you want one that asks what percentage of day and night time energy you use.
I hope all this helps - good luck with your detective work!
Tubster

tubster

Another thing to check - is the timer that runs your storage heaters set correctly? usually it will be near the fuse board. If it is wrong, at it might be if somene turned off the power for a while before you arrived, your heaters could be coming on during the day which would be very expensive. As someone else has said, you need to find out when exactly your economy 7 hours are - mine are 10.30 to 7.30, so it is actually 9 hours, which is fantastic. But it really varies. I found out by looking at the meter every 15 minutes to work it out, because my supplier was clueless. A little arrow moved when it went over from one to another. When you know, set your timer carefully to those times.