Clamped, Appeal refused, next step County Court - your opinions required.

ipanter

Hi All,

I was clamped towards the end of January. I had to pay the £150 clamp release fee and have followed the advice on this site to appeal. The appeal has been refused so i am now comtemplating taking the case to court, however i would first appriciate the opinions of forum users as to how well they think my case will stand up.

The story goes like this;

I visted my friend for the night in Bournemouth he lives in a block of flats. On arrival the evening before i was clamped he told me to park infront of the building.

When leaving the next day i found my car had been clamped. I called the clamper he told me that i had contravened the signs by not having permission to park and for not displaying a valid permit. At this point i had to ask him to point the signs out to me. They are small, high, unclear, ambiguous and unillumiated. Beacause the signs are not clear in court i will argue that there was no contract between us, and therefore the charge is unenforceable.

Full details of what happened are included in my appeal letter, a link to the appeal letter is below (prcweb.doc)

Below are links to pics of the situation.

Poor signage pics (for those without eagle eyesight the signs are small white signs, high on the wall, one on each side of the building)
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/7.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/2.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/1.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/8.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/9.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/10.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/11.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/12.jpg

Close ups of the signs
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/14.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/15.jpg

I would appriciate your opinions on the quality of the signage, i don't think they are sufficient as i didn't see them when i parked, what do you think?

Below are the letters sent to the clampers
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/prcweb.doc
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/clampinvoiceweb.doc
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/noaweb.doc

I sent the appeal(prcweb.doc), then didn't hear anything, so i sent another letter (noaweb.doc) then recieved these letters together in the same envelope (without the enclosures they say are included).

Letters recieved from clampers
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/clweb.pdf

Hopefully you are still reading and you've had a good look at all the evidence and that it is sufficient for you to give me an idea of what your thoughts are and how well you think i might do in court.

I don't only see this as the cost of £150, it is also a big matter of principal to me, however i don't want to push it if i'm not going to win, so your thoughts will really help me make a decision as to go to court or not.

Any advice will be gratefully recieved.

Many thanks in advance

Ian

oldone_2

Did you pay with a credit card.If so ask for a refund from the CC company.

I would agree the sign are too small, and probably do not meet the minium size outlined in the clamping industries code of practice.

Neil_B

i doubt many people will be opening those pdf links.

Hence I don't know what you've submitted. I can only offer a layman's view and firstly - wish you luck against these scammers.

Have you made reference to any relevant case law? Maybe PePiPoo experts could point you in the right direction for that.

ipanter

Oldone, thanks for the reply.

they wouldn't allow me to pay with a CC because it was a Sunday!!??

I have checked the PPA and they say signs should be at least 45cm x 45cmm, these ones are not.

ipanter

Neil B,

do you think it would be better if i embedded the images into the thread?

laurenjs88

i just looked through everything, take the b**tards to court, the two police officers will have to give statements also so i reckon you have got a good case.

Ridiculas signage, i mean maybe if it was yellow like most clamping signs are everywhere else then you could understand the reasoning of the clamping, but white signs on a light blue buliding?

xxlaurissaxx

Theres your first way of getting back your money -

I have checked the PPA and they say signs should be at least 45cm x 45cmm, these ones are not

Secondly I would take a picture of these signs when it is dark - They would be impossible to read, its just like you were trying to read a book in the dark - you wouldnt do it as you wouldnt be able to read the words on the page.

I would take it to court as it looks like they are not going to back down.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. xx


P.S - Take as much photos as possible (day and night without the flash on) and take measurements with a ruler and put it against the sign to show that it is not a legal sign.

Good luck xx

ipanter

laurenjs88, thanks for reading through it all and your opinion, it is most appriciated.

xxlaurissaxx, Thanks also for taking the time to have a look. The 45cm x 45cm rule is only a BPA rule (sorry i put PPA before). This firm is not a member of the BPA so i'm not sure if i can apply it to my case. But it is worth a try. Thanks also for the advice on photos in the dark. I have already had some photos taken in the dark, i have included links below for you to have a look at, you can't see anything though! - i've also included images that have been brighten by 50% and you still can't see anything!

http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/dark1.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/dark2.jpg

brightened by 50% images

http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/dark1bri50pc.jpg
http://pdf.newman.uk.com/private/clamp/dark2bri50pc.jpg

Thanks again for all the replies, keep them coming.

Ian

MX5huggy

Do I think you have a good case and could win? Yes

Do I think their is any point? No FSS may not even defend the case but as you don't have an address how are you going to get your money back? They will just disapear and Second Step Security will appear.

I would aim some fire at the freeholders/managmnent of the building and land you parked at. Your friend probably pays fees to these people.

ipanter

MX5huggy, thanks for your time and your reply. (ps. great car i used to have a sunburst yellow mx5 aka california)

I must say that at first i was a bit dubious about even getting a reply to my appeal due to the fact that they only give a PO box address. However they did reply - which is a start at least.

And as they are a Ltd they are registered with Companies House and have a registered address, albeit in London, so i could issue court papers there.

Also i think, and maybe someone could confirm or deny this, that directors of a company must register their home address, which you can purchase from companies house in which case i'll send the court papers there.

The guy who clamped me is registered as the director of the company - and i'm not sure if you noticed that both the letters from FSS were signed by 'Appeals Manager' they gave no real name, this is probably an attempt to stop any court proceedings by not having the name of the defendant. (and becasue it was probably sent by the same person who clamped me and the director of the company - i think it is probably a one man band)

sarahg1969

Remember that the BPA is not a regulatory body, or a consumer organisation. It is simply a trade association, set up for the benefit of its members (the parking companies).

OP, you will also need to pursue the landowner for recovery of your money (who is less likely to do a moonlight flit).