mobile phone scam for drivers

camellion11parrot

I Have Just Been Fined For Using My Mobile Phone While Driving. Unfortunately For Me I Was Not Using My Phone As It Was Tucked Away In My Bag All Zipped Up.they Would Not Believe Me And Never Asked To See My Phone And When I Asked Them To Check It They Refused. I Would Like To Know If This Has Happened To Anybody Else. I Would Also Like To Know What The Rules Are Before They Can Charge Anybody. Surely There Must Be Some Kind Of Proof Before You Can Be Charged. I Never Even Had A Phone In My Hand. This Is Disgusting. After Scouring The Internet It Seems It Is Happening A Lot To Innocent People.

Mathew

You will not have been 'charged', you would have been issued a endorcable fixed penalty notice I would have thought. These can be issued by the Police and do not need any kind of review of evidencec or authortiy from the CPS or alike as a criminal charge generally would.

If this is the case you can accept the £60 pound fine and three points, however, if you do not accept it you can take the matter to the magistrates court. Details of how to do this will be on the ticket.

Be warned, if you do this and the prosecution if proved you run the risk of more points, cost of the court, and a bigger fine.

Hope this helps

DNKPets

I dont post often as I rarely have anything constructive to say. How Annoying Is It When Every Word Starts With A Capital Letter. ALMOST AS BAD AS CAPS.

Rant over.

Being constructive your network provider can provide details of usage that will prove that you was not using your mobile at the time of the alleged offence.

gav357

Why would they (I assume it was the police) stop you and say you were on your phone when your phone was in your bag???

You should have been issued with a conditional offer of fixed penalty and the current charge for that is 60 pounds and 3 penalty points. You should have been formally cautioned and charged with the offence and the officer should have mentioned the act you have contravened, quoting either the road vehicles construction and use regs, regulation 110 or the road traffic act 1988.

If you have been "done" with this then you would not be in any doubt as to where you stand (if you've been charged or not).....

Should you refuse to pay the ticket, which if all is as you say it is, I would do then the matter will go to court.

There is only a very slim chance that you will end up with a more substantial penalty than if you had accepted the ticket. If you were guaranteed to get a higher penalty at court then that would be getting in the way of justice as no-one would ever plead not guilty.

If you were told by the cops that you will be fined a higher amount etc then this is just to put you off pleading not guilty which means they have to submit a report and then attend a trial and give evidence.

If you choose to pay the ticket be sure to take both parts of your license (if its a photocard) otherwise they wont accept it as it goes to Swansea to get endorsed.

Also getting your provider to provide evidence that you weren't making or receiving a call or txt at the time is irrelevant. The term "using" a mobile phone or hand held device is ambiguous to say the least. It could be construed that merely having the phone in your hand, looking at the screen is "using" it.

At the end of the day it will all come down to your word against the cops and the court don't always side with the police.

The officers dont have to check your phone however if they were at all professional they would have at least noted the model and colour of it. For all you know they could go to court saying you had a silver phone in your hand when yours is actually black etc....they have left themselves wide open.

I personally wouldn't pay a ticket for an offence I hadn't committed.

sporedude

So they just randomley pulled you over? Even if they didnt see your phone? Maybe they did see your phone, And assumed you where using it.

Mathew

[There is only a very slim chance that you will end up with a more substantial penalty than if you had accepted the ticket. If you were guaranteed to get a higher penalty at court then that would be getting in the way of justice as no-one would ever plead not guilty.

If you were told by the cops that you will be fined a higher amount etc then this is just to put you off pleading not guilty which means they have to submit a report and then attend a trial and give evidence]

This is totally incorrect and bad advice, of course you will get a harsher outcome if you take this to trial otherwise who in in thier right would accept the tickets when they could have a trial and try thier luck with no adverse effect. If this was the case the court would have endless amounts of time wasted not to mention needless expense of the 'public purse'!

If 'convicted' you may still only get three points but the costs will end up more than £60, as you will be responsible for the court costs as well as an inevitable fine (up to a £1000 although unlikely)

However, this is not to say that if you did not do what is being alleged you should accept the ticket, merely pointing out possible consequences

MORPH3US

OP, please chill out with the capital letters at the start of every word....

If you really weren't using the phone, don't pay the fine and take it to court...

At the end of the day, its innocent until proven guilty so its up to them to prove you were using the phone, not for you to prove that you weren't.

gav357

Mathew wrote: »

[There is only a very slim chance that you will end up with a more substantial penalty than if you had accepted the ticket. If you were guaranteed to get a higher penalty at court then that would be getting in the way of justice as no-one would ever plead not guilty.

If you were told by the cops that you will be fined a higher amount etc then this is just to put you off pleading not guilty which means they have to submit a report and then attend a trial and give evidence]

This is totally incorrect and bad advice, of course you will get a harsher outcome if you take this to trial otherwise who in in their right would accept the tickets when they could have a trial and try their luck with no adverse effect. If this was the case the court would have endless amounts of time wasted not to mention needless expense of the 'public purse'!

If 'convicted' you may still only get three points but the costs will end up more than £60, as you will be responsible for the court costs as well as an inevitable fine (up to a £1000 although unlikely)

However, this is not to say that if you did not do what is being alleged you should accept the ticket, merely pointing out possible consequences

Mathew....Can you not tell from the context of my advice what I do for a living??????? Perhaps I hand out these tickets to the general public every other day???? Maybe I worked in the courts branch for a bit.......who knows..........obviously you seem to........

Accepting a ticket for an offence you never committed is stupid and I don't know why you are trying to scare this guy into pleading guilty (as thats what accepting the ticket is doing) and are so against going to court....perhaps you had a bad experience in court?????

The courts in general have no vested interest in the ticket or in handing out large fines...why would you get a 1000 pound fine for contesting a 60 pound ticket...thats just ludicrous.

If you were meant to just accept the ticket and never go to court then it wouldn't be given to you as an option....the hint is in the name of the ticket...its a conditional offer (OFFER!!!!!) of fixed penalty...you don't even have to accept the ticket at the side of the road, you can refuse and the cops will simply charge you with the offence and it will be reported for consideration of prosecution.....So does that mean that if you refuse the ticket or if the cop doesn't have tickets with him (it happens) and they charge you, that you wont be fined 60 pounds and given 3 points, you'll get hammered in court......

I've never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life.....please only give advice if you have knowledge in the subject or can back your advice up with facts...all you are doing is scaremongering :eek:

It is up to the CPS (England and Wales) or procurator fiscal (Scotland) as to whether it is in the public interest to pursue a court case. This is paid for by taxpayers money and IS NOT LEVIED AGAINST THE DEFENDANT.....there is no such thing as paying court costs in a criminal trial(other than your own legal defence).....innocent until proven guilty, and the onus of proof lies entirely with the prosecution...whats more they must prove their case BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT and not just reasonable probability as in civil law.....Everyone has the right to a fair trial, its a basic right that's protected by the human rights act!!!!!!!! :mad:

ultrak3wl

I have a feeling this is a troll anyway. Also does not make sense - OP firstly wants to know if this has happened to anyone else then says he or she has already scoured the internet and discovered it happens to lots of people.

I do wonder though how difficult it is to charge someone with this offence because modern mobile phones are small and surely it's almost impossible to tell if someone is just raising their (empty) hand up to their head for some reason.

Mathew

gav357 wrote: »

Mathew....Can you not tell from the context of my advice what I do for a living??????? Perhaps I hand out these tickets to the general public every other day???? Maybe I worked in the courts branch for a bit.......who knows..........obviously you seem to........

Perhaps you do, don't care, although doubt it from your posts.

Accepting a ticket for an offence you never committed is stupid and I don't know why you are trying to scare this guy into pleading guilty (as thats what accepting the ticket is doing) and are so against going to court....perhaps you had a bad experience in court?????

Not trying to scare anybody into anything, hense why I pointed out that they should not accept anything for something they had not done. Merely pointing out the consequences possible at court.

The courts in general have no vested interest in the ticket or in handing out large fines...why would you get a 1000 pound fine for contesting a 60 pound ticket...thats just ludicrous.

I did not pick this out of thin air the court can give a fine of £1000 on conviction of this offence. Not ludicrous its a fact.

If you were meant to just accept the ticket and never go to court then it wouldn't be given to you as an option....the hint is in the name of the ticket...its a conditional offer (OFFER!!!!!) of fixed penalty...you don't even have to accept the ticket at the side of the road, you can refuse and the cops will simply charge you with the offence and it will be reported for consideration of prosecution...

You won't get 'charged' for anything at the road side, perhaps if you handed these out at the roadside every other day you might know this??
I think your getting at an NIP, as the alternative which may be correct!

..So does that mean that if you refuse the ticket or if the cop doesn't have tickets with him (it happens) and they charge you, that you wont be fined 60 pounds and given 3 points, you'll get hammered in court......

Didn't mention anything about getting hammered at court, however, if you do refuse the ticket, go to court, have a trial and subsequently get convicted, yes you can expect to get a harsher fine of £60. What do you expect, to have a trail in front of magistrates, get found guilty and for them to give you exactly what would have been offered if you accepted the fixed penalty in the first place??

I've never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life.....please only give advice if you have knowledge in the subject or can back your advice up with facts...all you are doing is scaremongering :eek:

Oh right, how about the law.... .http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/mobile_phone.htm

It is up to the CPS (England and Wales) or procurator fiscal (Scotland) as to whether it is in the public interest to pursue a court case. This is paid for by taxpayers money and IS NOT LEVIED AGAINST THE DEFENDANT.....there is no such thing as paying court costs in a criminal trial(other than your own legal defence).....innocent until proven guilty, and the onus of proof lies entirely with the prosecution...whats more they must prove their case BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT and not just reasonable probability as in civil law.....Everyone has the right to a fair trial, its a basic right that's protected by the human rights act!!!!!!!! :mad:

Speaking of ridiculous!! are you for real?, this is nonsense. After trial somebody having been found guilty will generally always be ordered to pay some sort of court cost.

As for you rant about human rights and burdons of proof, well done, not sure what the relavance is mind as I never made mention of this and only want the OP to know the potential outcomes. I again refer to the fact that nobody should accept responsibility for something they have not done

gav357

Dear Mathew.......as you have decided to call me out I will respond.....


I am a serving police officer with 8 yrs police service....

I worked in both the high court and the district courts (Scotland) for 8 months......

I do know what I am talking about......I do this for a living...I don't merely look up stuff on the net and take it as gospel.

You may have to pay court costs in a civil trial......road traffic legislation is criminal.....there are no court costs to pay...how stupid......To take things to an extreme, if you were charged with murder would you just plead guilty to avoid having a 6 week trial costing over a million pounds (yes they are that expensive) in case you were to pay the court costs.......

I think that you should stick to watching the bill........

Ordinarily I wouldn't mind a battle of wits however as a matter of principle I don't fight unarmed opponents....

Have a nice day.