Lloyds Tsb Shares

gozomark

Buddy195 wrote: »

Nice to see a decent bounce on RBS & Lloyds shares today hope its the first of many....

given we are all shareholders now, quite agree :rotfl:

mrposhman

ad44downey wrote: »

Check out the share prices. They don't usually lie. When the share prices drops 80 or 90% you can be fairly sure something is seriously wrong

Most mining and engineering stocks are down from their highs, too. They have asked for recapitalisation from their shareholders though, the banks have gone to the government.

My point about nationalisation is, What good will it do?

Will they still have the same assets, good and bad??? - YES
Will they still have the same amount of cash?? - YES
Will they be in the exact same situation as they are now?? - YES
Will there be a reduced amount of exit strategies for the govt / taxpayer - YES

There is no good to come from nationalising the banks, the taxpayer will have to take the full brunt of the writedowns instead of part of it. They will lose the income from the pref shares, and its highly likely that when the exit from LBG comes, the taxpayer will get a lower return than if they left it as it is.

gozomark

Will they be in the exact same situation as they are now?? not if the Government puts more money into them as part of nationalisation, which would be the idea

opinions4u

mrposhman wrote: »

Most mining and engineering stocks are down from their highs, too. They have asked for recapitalisation from their shareholders though, the banks have gone to the government.

That's because the shareholders have lost just about everything and wouldn't throw any more money in to the cess pit.

My point about nationalisation is, What good will it do?

You're missing the point. Unless nationalisation is part of a more devious political game, the whole reason for any government intervention is to stabilise a dramatically bad situation. The real question is "what damage does not nationalising do?". At this precise moment, nationalisation isn't needed. If significantly bigger losses materialise that situation could change. At that point in time, failure to nationalise (or remove the toxic 'asets' from the balance sheets) would be very likely to lead RBS or LBG to collpase. The economic shockwaves would be similar to the impact of the moon crashing out of its orbit and smashing in to the Cotswalds.

Will they still have the same assets, good and bad??? - YES

It depends what form the natiniolisation takes. Setting up a toxic bank may be a better solution.

Will they still have the same amount of cash?? - YES

The whole point of nationalisation is that they will have more cash to strengthen the balance sheets to cover any further write-offs.

Will they be in the exact same situation as they are now?? - YES

Again, a matter of interpretation. The initial purpose of nationalisation would be to stabilise. The longer term purpose would be to give the banks a base to operate sensibly and profitably.

Will there be a reduced amount of exit strategies for the govt / taxpayer - YES

We're already on plan Z where the government is concerned. Again, the whole issue is about the consequences of inaction, rather than the benefits of action.

There is no good to come from nationalising the banks

But if the situation deteriorates significantly there is a hell of a lot of bad that could come from not doing so. Moon, Cotswalds etc.

the taxpayer will have to take the full brunt of the writedowns instead of part of it.

<shrug> . And the alternative?

They will lose the income from the pref shares, and its highly likely that when the exit from LBG comes, the taxpayer will get a lower return than if they left it as it is.

That's an interesting view.

The banks all have a very profitable underlying business. Lloyds on its own was profitable in 2008. Chunks of HBOS have made significant sums in 2008. Looks to me like poor Corporate lending screwed them. Not the operations of their retail bank.

Once you strip out the toxic assets (yes, I know, it's an obscene amount, but it's what this whole situation is about) you have a number of profitable businesses that can easily service the preference shares and build the capital bases required to buy out the government's preference and ordinary shares.

While it's painful for us all, over time I think HM Government will get back every penny invested.

What they won't get back is the £6bn paid out to top up the FSCS in the wake of the Bradford & Bingley collapse or the £3bn paid out to Icelandic investors.

Andrew64

I'm wondering what effect, if any, the situation involving American banks would have on British banks. If Citibank and Bank of America are taken over by the US government - their shareprices are collapsing on the expectation that it will happen - can Lloyds and RBS/NatWest avoid being hit by the shock?

stamfordblue

I think that Lloyds shares being 56p are a cracking buy at the moment.
Their figures come out on Friday and I expect they will be good.
The share price will then rise.
They certainly won't be nationalised.

I look at how it will be in a years time.
The shares will probably have gone up by at least 25%.
Better than any savings account

Can anyone recommend a decent,cheap sharedealing service?
I want to buy some shares before Friday!

gozomark

stamfordblue wrote: »

.
They certainly won't be nationalised.

unlikely yes, but certainly ?? so you are 100% sure they won't be ?

simpywimpy

I also read in Investors chronicle this week that there was talk of the merger with hbos being reversed. Not sure if this is probably or indeed possible.

ad44downey

Andrew64 wrote: »

I'm wondering what effect, if any, the situation involving American banks would have on British banks. If Citibank and Bank of America are taken over by the US government - their shareprices are collapsing on the expectation that it will happen - can Lloyds and RBS/NatWest avoid being hit by the shock?

Definitely no

ad44downey

stamfordblue wrote: »

I think that Lloyds shares being 56p are a cracking buy at the moment.
Their figures come out on Friday and I expect they will be good.
The share price will then rise.
They certainly won't be nationalised.


The shares will probably have gone up by at least 25%.


!

Oh dear. You probably bought Northern Rock, B&B shares too.