Advice about dismissal - please

terra_ferma

This is the best thread I've ever seen on the MSE employment forum!

This is the true spirit of this board, people helping one another, with practical advice and moral support to get through difficult times.
I've been thanking people right left and centre, I'm so impressed with contributions.

And Amber I think you are so strong, level headed. No bitterness or feeling revengeful, but seeking the justice your OH deserves.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

NJW69

Wow!

I've just read the whole thread.

I've been to ET as the employer and we have settled on cases far less clear cut then this.

Good luck.

Amber07

terra_ferma wrote: »

This is the best thread I've ever seen on the MSE employment forum!

This is the true spirit of this board, people helping one another, with practical advice and moral support to get through difficult times.
I've been thanking people right left and centre, I'm so impressed with contributions.

Thank you - I am amazed myself at the level of support we have had on here, it has been wonderful.

NJW69 wrote: »

Wow!

I've just read the whole thread.

I've been to ET as the employer and we have settled on cases far less clear cut then this.

Good luck.

Here's hoping for us then!!!:j

Amber07

We have recieved the judgement.

My apologies first of all - we actually got the phone call to tell us last Wednesday (9th) but I was surprised at the outcome so have waited until I read and understood the full thing before I posted.

First, and most importantly:
"It was the unanimous decision of the Tribunal that the claimant was automatically unfairly dimissed"

HOWEVER - there was a Polkey reduction of 100% so that was a bit of a come down, and the reason I had to wait to read the report.

Regarding the decision:

The Commercial director:

The tribunal found the evidence of Mr ** to be unconvincing on the important issues of the date and remit of his investigation

The Operations Director:

The tribunal did not find Mr ** to be a credible or reliable witness on certain essential matters

The tribunal received no explanation as to why the claimant was not provided with a detaild explanation verbally or in writing advising him of his conduct in respect of which the respondents were contemplating dismissing him.

Mr ** admitted under oath that prior to the disciplinary hearing he never clarified to the claimant the true nature and extent of the charges against him. This lack of explanation seems incredible particularly as Mr ** was aware of the terms of the respondents own Statement of Employment particulars.

The tribunal drew the inference that MR ** made up his mind that a disciplinary hearing was necessary at a date as early as 16 Feb 2009, without further investigation taking place.

^^bearing in mind OH was only suspended on the 14th Feb.

Managing Director:

The tribunal were unable to draw any definitive conclusions from the evidence regarding the appeal process.

Mr *** conceded under cross-examination that he had not provided the claimant with dates and times of the allegations made against him when requested to do so.

OH:

The tribunal regarded the claimants evidence to have been honestly and credibly given, with one exception...

....and here was the downfall. The allegations of bullying, which is what we concentrated on all along were completly thrown out. The tribunal were unanimous that there was no evidence of bullying:

the tribunal concluded that the respondents did not entertain a reasonable suspicion amounting to a belief in the guilt of the claimant of misconduct relating to intimidation and bullying

However, the 'misappropriation of a cash sum' which I haven't really gone in to because I thought it paled in comparison to the bullying(!) was what they didn't believe him on (plus it didn't come up until later in the process, at the disciplinary). Basically he slpit a tip between himself and another worker. His half went to a cash tin to save for a night out, but the tribunal didn't believe him as the respondent argued that it wasn't a tip, it was payment for a job and he had, in effect, stolen £10. This was the reason the compensation payment was reduced as they decided he would have been fired for this anyway and therefore 'contributed to his own dismissal'
The part about this that is niggling at me is that the one witness who could 100% back him up on this point was the one who bailed on him for a promotion midway through last year

However the tribunal did say regarding this that an allegation of theft was one which "merited a careful and conscientious investigation" The first director was unclear in his evidence which date he was instructed to carry out the investigation and what his remit was. The tribunal Concluded:

without such evidence it was impossible for them to decide that the respondent's investigatin had indeed been careful and concientious.

For these reasons, the tribunal concluded that a reasonable investigation did not take place in this case

^^I find it difficult to accept that they are able to make a decision like that just based on a couple of solicitors arguing a point at tribunal...



So there you have it......16 months, 7 days at tribunal and although he did win his unfair dismissal claim, we just need to accept the fact that we have nothing else to show for it (exept a solicitors bill and a lot of hassle with jobs!). The stigma of 'bully' has been lifted but the one of 'thief' still remains, sadly.

They have until the 28th of July to appeal.......not sure if they will or not, they have dragged everything else out as painfully as possible.


Thank you to everyone who has supported us throughout the past year or so, it has been invaluable.

tabskitten

Does hubby have another job to go to?

Amber07

He is having to go self employed to stay in work, but he has a lead on another potential position, he is never out of work for long

traz39

sorry to hear about that all that well what seems for nothing were goin through the same at the moment with bullying our tribunal is 1st july hope its ok keep your chin up and knowone can say you didnt try

joanne_d_3

Oh Amber.....

Not quite the result we were all hoping for.

How are you both ?

Am i correct in thinking that you have received NO compensation at all ?

What about lost earnings......dont you at least get those?

Joanne

Googlewhacker

Harsh but it does just show that you have to be 100% accurate when taking the employer to a tribunal. It also means that them spending their money has been worthwhile.

Amber07

joanne_d wrote: »

Oh Amber.....

Not quite the result we were all hoping for.

How are you both ?

Am i correct in thinking that you have received NO compensation at all ?

What about lost earnings......dont you at least get those?

Joanne

Nope, nothing.

Their judgement did say at the end that had compensation been awarded it would have been the requested losses plus a 25% uplift so we lost out on around £36,000. I would have preferred not to know that tbh lol.

It must have cost the employers well over 25k to go to tribunal, our fees will come in at around 21k.

At least two companies have benefitted financially I guess....:o