Advice about dismissal - please

Amber07

Confusedconsumer wrote: »

Sounds like you might need professional help. If you have home/car insurance, or with a credit card, you may have access to free legal help. It is worth finding out and if you have legal help you can ask for an employment specialist.

Another site worth looking at, under employment is www.adviceguide.org.uk

Good luck

The most annoying thing is, I took out legal protection with my house insurance - to the value of 50k.

BUT it doesn't cover employment tribunals.:mad:

firesidemaid

have been trying to read all of this. have had to help friends twice at disciplinary hearings.

first time it was after they had been sacked, realised they had not done anything properly/followed their own procedure. compiled every single incorrect/illegal detail - it really does add up and make them look really bad. outcome, we won.

2nd time was much more clued up - let them sack friends wrongly and then, again present all evidence, won case, paid out money.

do you have a copy of the disciplinary procedure yet? it's vital. am glad you have got friends help on it. i remember (think it was tuc) handbook on whole process was really helpful. will read through your thread again later and see if i can add anything.

have you got a new date for next meeting? is it fact finding/interview or actual disciplinary process hearing? they will need to let you have copies of all their evidence in good time to prepare plus make sure you have enough time to prepare your evidence etc.

Amber07

firesidemaid wrote: »

do you have a copy of the disciplinary procedure yet? it's vital. am glad you have got friends help on it. i remember (think it was tuc) handbook on whole process was really helpful. will read through your thread again later and see if i can add anything.

have you got a new date for next meeting? is it fact finding/interview or actual disciplinary process hearing? they will need to let you have copies of all their evidence in good time to prepare plus make sure you have enough time to prepare your evidence etc.

We found the contract, it states the disciplinary process, but it's all french to me It does say they can get rid of someone for gross misconduct, but that is the part he refutes. They are making threats about getting authorities involved if he doesn't resign. (Exact words were 'Well, if you want to fall on your sword....') :mad:

Thing is, he doesn't care about them getting others involved as he is adamant he has done nothing wrong. Mind you, they have gone to these lengths, who knows what else they could produce to get rid of him..

The next meeting as far as I am aware is the disciplinary hearing. He got a phone call on friday to tell him to be there 10am Tues.We don't have copies of their evidence, in fact even the suspension letter only stated 3 problems (all which can be explained) yet there was 8 comments brought up in the initial meeting.

It's beyond a joke, and it's not funny.

We have the name of an employment lawyer to call at 9am tomorrow morning to see if he can fit us in. I just hope he can.

Liz_the_Whizz

hi amber,

It's so horrible when things go bad at work like this.

Hope it goes OK with the employment lawyer, make sure you get a clear idea of costs - it can prove very expensive and there are very few guaranteed outcomes in employment law.

Make sure you discuss the possibility of the compromise agreement with the lawyer - a shock letter from the lawyer asking for various clarifications in advance of Tuesday's meeting could work a treat in getting them in the right frame of mind.

Good luck!

Amber07

Would need to be a phone call at this late stage I reckon

Thanks for your good wishes - cost is the main thing I am worried about, but we will see if he thinks we have a chance first.

firesidemaid

i am trying to remember back, i think it is that you need to know exactly the 'charges' against you before the disciplinary hearing - you are not entitled to see their evidence before this hearing (but if OH was sacked, then you are entitled to all the 'evidence' they have/used for their case).

as they have stated only 3 'problems' in the suspension letter, then that is all they can concentrate on. ie. they cannot bring anything else up/any other 'charges' at the hearing as you need the pre-warning about them to prepare your evidence. so if they start harping on about other stuff, kindly remind them that that is not what the meeting is about.

make sure that someone is taking notes at the meeting, so they can be signed as a true record as other poster said. If OH takes a friend, get them to write notes too - they can also comment at the meeting if need be.

re. the 3 'problems' - make sure you write down as much evidence (and more) to refute/prove against each charge. if you know someone has been charged/found gulity of something like this before, what was the outcome?

companies are sometimes downright silly, especially if the local managers/HR don't really know their stuff. at the second case i helped in, there was a good union rep present at hearing who told managers that if the said staff were sacked then it would be automatic unfair dismissal and that there would be a tribunal etc - they did not care as they hoped the sacked staff would get bored/find another job. all 7/8 (again, trying to get rid of staff cheaply) took it to a tribunal - most took money, some their jobs back.

it is really scary and i am no expert and therefore would not want to advise you, but this does happen all the time - sometimes because they don't know what they can and can't do, sometimes they know the law but hope you don't.

good luck x

ps. the fact that your OH is so highly regarded ie. increased profits by 10k/month and given a payrise negates why they want rid - it also negates anything pre-november should they try and mention it. when was his last appraisal/due?

olly300

Amber07 wrote: »

Thank you for all that. I have to admit I am getting panicky now.

he got a letter on Thurs detailing his suspension and it looks like they are going to try for gross misconduct - they haven't detailed in what way exactly.

ACAS were no good - first time we phoned the woman was saying it counds like they havent followed procedure, phone us back when you get the suspension letter, then when we phoned back a different woman said it sounded like they HAD followed procedure. I dunno what to think now. I personally don't think they did, but what would I know.

Some ACAS people are good others are not.

Also at this time their service is likely to be stretched by lots of employers trying tricks like this to save money.

Amber07 wrote: »

A friend of a freind is a lawyer and he is going to have a look at things, speak to an employment law expert and let us know how things will stand. A relative works for social security, she said don't let him resign - nothing can be claimed for 3 months if he resigns. He doesn't want to claim anything though and has applied for 4 jobs already this week.

Correct. You must never resign otherwise even if you have got a case to take to tribunal you have automatically made it harder for yourself.

Amber07 wrote: »

I have said to DH that we need to sit tight and let him be sacked now. He got a phone call to say his hearing os on Tues. It's disheartening to see someone who has done so much to increase profits for that company be brought so low. Still, he will get through it - he has me.;)

Ask your husband whether he thinks he is a victim of any form of discrimination i.e. age, nationality (race). If he thinks he is and more importantly has got evidence to prove it, or even if he doesn't think he is but has evidence to indicate this then he should mention it in the meeting.

Discrimination claims cost employers lots more to defend if they go to a tribunal.

firesidemaid

there may also be an option to appeal against any decision, before a tribunal if that is what the company disiplinary policy states.

Amber07

Thank you for all your comments firesidemaid. They are only letting him take a union rep or colleague into the meeting. BUT their contract states 'An Employee may be accompanied by a representative at any disciplinary meeting' So from that I assume he could take who he wants??

firesidemaid wrote: »

ps. the fact that your OH is so highly regarded ie. increased profits by 10k/month and given a payrise negates why they want rid - it also negates anything pre-november should they try and mention it. when was his last appraisal/due?

He hasn't had an official appraisal, but the managers have an individual monthly meeting with the directors to discuss how everything is going/any issues. At the last meeting (4th of Feb, suspended 14th Feb!)the only thing they brought up was the cleanliness of the building. No other points were raised that he has been suspended for.

Amber07

olly300 wrote: »

Ask your husband whether he thinks he is a victim of any form of discrimination i.e. age, nationality (race). If he thinks he is and more importantly has got evidence to prove it, or even if he doesn't think he is but has evidence to indicate this then he should mention it in the meeting.

Discrimination claims cost employers lots more to defend if they go to a tribunal.

No chance of that one at all. He is 33, White/British and married with 3 kids and a mortgage, pretty standard really.

All this kicked off when the owner done the rounds of the properties and seemed to tak a dislike to Hubby. (Hubby isn't a 'Yes' man) everything had been going fine up till that point, then it just seemed as though nothing was good enough any more. Funny thing is, the guy who suspended him was the one who recommended him for the job - gave him a glowing reference.

Clash of personalities maybe..but hubby was making him more money, which in the business world should count for something.:rolleyes: