No such thing as unlimited broadband

KingL

RFU wrote: »

I can agree with the companies restricting the network at peek times. I dont have aproblem with this. What I do have a problem with is, if I download over 500mb between these times, I am capped to 2mb for 5 hours. It is like a sin bin. This needs to be pointed out to new customers when they purchase.

I doubt that anybody really disagrees with your original point that consumers should receive what they were sold and that sellers should be open about the restrictions placed on their service. (I have just read through the T&Cs and Acceptable Use Policy and nothing there gives anything close to the facts on how restrictions are implemented).

On the other hand
1) a quick google of Virgin Media FUP would have revealed an encylopedia full of disaffected VM customers telling you in graphic detail how bad the traffic management/FUP situation is
2) despite living close to the centre of a major city, I can't get cable internet at all. Many people would kill to get half a MB/s. I would love to have your problem of being "restricted" to 2MB/s
3) even after the promo period, you will still be paying way less for you 2MB-10MB pipe than us copper-types have to pay for a much much slower service
4) just get some traffic measurement software and make sure you don't trip the allowance between 4pm-9pm

For what it's worth, this is how HM Govt responded to complaints about the use of the word 'unlimited' in the advertising:

The Government has responded to a petition regarding the use of the word "unlimited" in advertising broadband:

"In general, companies are free to use whatever contractual terms and conditions they consider reasonable. If prospective customers are unhappy with these they can attempt to re-negotiate the terms in question or go elsewhere. There are, however, some legal safeguards for consumers in relation to unfair contract terms.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 provide protection for consumers when entering into contracts. Companies who deal with consumers and use standard form contracts must ensure they do not use unfair terms.

These regulations require that any written term of a contract is expressed in plain intelligible language. Consumers should be able to read and understand all the terms of the contract before they are bound by them. Consequently, contract terms which are hard to understand because of obscure wording or unreadable small print are more likely to be found unfair.

Advertising in the UK is controlled primarily by self-regulation and co-regulation under which the Advertising Standards Authority has responsibility for ensuring compliance with the British Code of Advertising Sales Promotion and Direct Marketing (non-broadcast advertising), the TV Advertising Standards Code, and the Radio Advertising Standards Code. It requires all forms of advertising to be legal, decent, honest and truthful and prepared with a sense of responsibility to both consumers and society.

The Government is aware of complaints by consumers to the Advertising Standards Authority that some Internet or telephone packages are being promoted as being 'unlimited' or 'unrestricted' in some way. Qualifying an 'unlimited' claim with a fair usage policy in the small print of an ad is allowed as long as it really is fair and not misleading. For example, if 80% of domestic customers fall well within the limit specified by a broadband provider and the remaining 20% fall outside of it, perhaps because they are using a domestic package for business use, then it may be considered a reasonable claim. The Advertising Standards Authority considers each complaint on a case-by-case basis."

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DatabaseError

@moonrakerz that's the ways it needs to go, sadly (I've also got no water meter..I'm doing ok for now )

sweep9

IFAIK, Sky is still the only UK BB supplier to offer Unlimited (by the official meaning of the term) on their Max package @ £10/£15 a month.

DatabaseError

o2/be offer the same so far as I'm aware (fup in place, but never used)
other isps offer unlimited, but charge a lot of money for it

RFU

Thank you for the comments and advice. Next time I will choose my words more carefully to be understood more easily.


RFU

Jay08

Bethere offer unlimted, the usage is 3TB in 3 months I believe before they will ask you to calm down, this is what someone told me speaking to a tech at bethere.

barginboyrob

Are there any other cable internet providers (or providers where you don't need a BT phone line) that offer unlimited (really unlimited) internet access?

GeoThermal

DatabaseError wrote: »

much as I disagree iwth the explanation, the term 'unlimited' is taken, by the ISPs, to mean 'unlimited time online' not, what you and I consider correct 'unlimited bandwidth/downloads'

It certainly didn't refer to time spent online when I worked at an ISP. The unlimited referred to what you could download, not how long you were online. As such I've always found the unlimited claim in adverts to be false advertising.

esuhl

PaulK wrote: »

No ISP will be able to keep up with the demands of a minority, the more fibre they lay and the more bandwidth they open up the more a group of people will hammer it.

So why do they pretend they can keep up with such demand? If I buy an "unlimited" connection, I expect to be able to be downbloading at close to 8MB/s 24 hours a day if I choose. If that isn't sustainable, then the ISPs need to make demand and supply meet by adjusting their charges and bandwidth allocation accordingly.

Advertising one thing, then applying contradictory terms and conditions (i.e. when "unlimited" means "limited") is just unacceptable.

Nilrem

esuhl wrote: »

So why do they pretend they can keep up with such demand? If I buy an "unlimited" connection, I expect to be able to be downbloading at close to 8MB/s 24 hours a day if I choose. If that isn't sustainable, then the ISPs need to make demand and supply meet by adjusting their charges and bandwidth allocation accordingly.

Advertising one thing, then applying contradictory terms and conditions (i.e. when "unlimited" means "limited") is just unacceptable.

Unlimited (as someone has already said) generally refers to the fact you have unlimited connection time - it harks back to the days of dial up where you often bought connection time in advance (anyone remember AOL 5/10/20 hour packages?) at times on top of the call cost.
Even on the stingiest ADSL package you're unlikely to meet the bandwidth "limits" doing things like light web browsing, and email.

What a lot of people seem unable to see is that to provide unlimited bandwidth on a modern broadband line costs the companies huge amounts - iirc depending on supplier you might be able to get a 100mb leased line (no contention, unlimited bandwidth) from some business suppliers for as little as a thousand pounds a month depending on where you are (other places might cost near that for a 10mb leased line)
Given that you can get 50mbit cable connections for £50 a month there is an obvious disparity in what can be expected in terms of total bandwidth available to each user over the space of the month.

Basically the headline speed is a "burst" speed, if you want to use that capacity to it's full constantly you're more suited to a business line, as consumer lines are not intended for that sort of use (the pricing alone gives a clue to people who have looked into it).

What ISP's do is base their pricing on a combination of things, including
Their basic cost of providing the connection - IIRC it costs ADSL ISP's about a tenner a month just to use the BT copper to the house.
Their overheads
How much bandwidth the average user uses in the billing period (how many users then can support given their capacity).
How much their parent company is willing to flush down the drain to gain customers - Sky at the moment are literally throwing money away in the hope of gaining customers (they are offering their ADSL service at a loss, which could well come back to bite them in the bum*)

This is very similar to how Telecoms companies (landlines, and more recently mobile providers) work, as to have the capacity to let everyone use their internet connection, phone, or mobile to it's full extent constantly costs far too much to be viable, so they work it based on averages.

Personally I wish the ISP's would stop waving around the headline speed and cost as if that is all that is important, but I also wish that consumers would understand that low cost and high connection speeds are not the only things to take into account when choosing a service provider.

However given even supposedly very tech savvy users can't understand the reasons, and I know some people who have swapped ISP's almost every year as the ISP starts to take note of people using 10-100x the average I don't hold out much hope.

In short, in my opinion both consumers and companies are equally to blame for this situation, where unlimited seems to mean something different depending on which side of the fence you're on.
Consumers for chasing after the cheapest deals, with the highest numbers without bothering to look at the details.
Companies for pandering to the consumers by going constantly for lower pricing, and higher headline speeds, and not making the limits much clearer.

I say all this as a fairly happy NTL/VM customer of 9 years, who has seen his connection go from 512k, to 20mb, and who despite the STM VM use has no intention of changing suppler for a "cheaper" package supplied by one of the multitude of ADSL services that on paper appear cheaper with a better "up to" speed.


*Either that or they are hoping that increases in their TV package pricing will help cover the losses from the BB offering.