HOME iNSURANCE CLAIM. DEPRESSED AND UPSET. Plz advice!

dacouch

nadine12 wrote: »

Paintpot, exactly the same here - I broke down in tears to someone at the loss adjusters! Which I found extremely embarassing but could not help myself as I was feeling so low about the whole thing. I think it is disgusting that someone can sit in their office knowing that someone is so upset to the point of feeling ill and still do nothing. I was also spoken to like cr*p and at one point, after having a bit of a rant because things were at a standstill (I am generally quite a polite person however, and my 'rant' is probably nothing compared to what some people say to them) I was asked, with a great deal of attitude, 'well what do you want me to do about it'! Well duh - DO YOUR JOB!! In my case it was literally a case of a phone call/ email to the drying company to say 'please take the floor tiles up at x address' - how difficult can that be?? I really think these people should be ashamed at how they are just toying with peoples lives and homes - in my opinion there is no excuse for it. If I didn't do my job properly (I am a probation officer) I would be sacked, simple as that.

Please everyone in the industry, read the above and also this quote from paint pot...

It is stressful and I have every sympathy for anyone going through an insurance claim but it is even more stressful when professionals who should know what they are doing do not.

Its stressful when someone has a disaster at home, we are the professionals they put their trust. They are real people who pay our wages, the reason they get upset on the phone is they have a problem and want out help. Lets all go that extra mile to help them, I have had a fire in my home and I know what they are going through. Hopefully you will never have it and if you do you will find how upsetting it can be...

Wol2

abhiman wrote: »

Hi,.
My update is that I have spoken to the claims deptt again and have told them again that my house has been wet since last 5 weeks and no remedial measure has been taken yet. They have registered a complaint against our LA and have asked us to call on monday morning when they will be talking to the LA on the same line and then us.
I have decided to ask for a restoration company to be involved and a senior person to deal with our case promptly giving us exact dates and schedule of our work. Also, I would be asking him the reason to lie us giving us wrong information.
Is their anything else I should be asking them to do?

Hi abhiman

First of all - my utmost sympathies ...I am still wearing the T shirt......and I hope the following will not get you duly unworried. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions at any time or want a chat on the phone this weekend (actually that might be the best option....). The good news is - you have an opportunity on monday to shape future events........and set the "tone" of your claim to ensure you get the best possible service......so well done you.........what I've written below will hopefully give a few more pointers...

I have had two successive threads running on the DFW board (mainly for the emotional support rather than anything else and before anybody asks, I;m not prepared at this time to name my insurance company or my loss adjusters or go public to watchdog etc or go into too much detail in public)....but I hope my ongoing experience following being flooded by the local stream plus sewage in July 2007 can be of assistance to prevent other people having to go through what I am still going through.....

So from what you say:
The house has been soaked for 5 weeks. The plaster will be wet. Depending upon how wet and where ,certain areas may need to be taken off the walls during "strip out" in order for the drying out work to be effective. Floorboards will need to be taken up. A complete refurbishment will in all probability now be required....but the loss adjuster (AND your representative ie surveyor will need to agree on that and the extent...)

The fact that Crawfords (the fourth largest loss adjuster in the world allegedly) have been appointed would suggest that the insurance company think this will be a large claim and certainly as the house has been wet for 5 weeks now, it is highly likely that you will need major strip out and refurbishment. (My first loss adjuster had no experience of flooding and put the claim down as a "wet carpet" job.....mistake number 1.....)

Therefore despite what we are led to think about the claims process and the role of the insurance company, it is the loss adjuster who will rule here and (from my experience) the insurance company can't do anything (raise cheques, issue instructions etc) unless the loss adjuster approves it first as part of their "internal procedures". If it has taken 5 weeks and you still have no drying out team .....this is negligence/lack of due care...probably by the loss adjuster if they have to authorise before the dring team goes in....and I'm sorry to say it will not get any better in terms of timeframes to process.......

HOWEVER - your contract is with the insurance company, not the loss adjuster. Who the insurers appoint as their agents (and the effectiveness of those agents or otherwise) is not your concern...it is the insurance company's responsibility and any beef you have about the service you get is with the insurance company as you are thier client. Any complaint you have must always go to the insurance company (as well as the loss adjuster .....or just to the insurance company if your LA is a real piece of work.....) and be addressed to their complaints department (the details on how to make a complaint will be in your policy booklet)...and you NEED to make your first complaint NOW in writing by recorded delivery. Phone calls are NOT enough.


So what needs to happen next - you must INSIST on (to both the loss adjuster and insurance company..in writing...)
a) driers in without any further delay - no stripping out to be done just get dryers in and try and recover or skip contents. (NOTE - take photographs of absolutely every item and do your OWN inventory - which means attending when the company are on site skipping stuff and logging everything that is skipped - otherwise all that you will be able to claim for are the large electrical items)

b) a surveyor being appointed forthwith at the insurance company's expense (you should choose the surveyor - let me know where you live and I will see if I can get referral for you - they need to be on the ball and very very used to dealing with this type of insurance claim and your particular loss adjusters) This surveyor will act as your representative and should draw up the stripping out AND refurbishment contract (they will need to get loss adjusters approval and nominated builders to release the tender to and the loss adjuster will vet responses and decide who will be appointed) The surveyor will also need to oversee the project/ interim payments to builders etc.....and you need to ensure the drying out process is included as part of their brief. (My drying out certificate was issued by the drying out people from the insurers, my surveyor wasn't happy it was dried out properly - we got new drying out people in for an additional 6 weeks........but took careful negotiation with loss adjusters to get that to happen ....mind you it was reasonable as LA had cocked up in their first assessment of extent of claim...)
c) accomodation for at least 6 months - for all pets and family- no way 4 months as you're now 6 weeks on and so drying out will probably take at least 10 weeks - Loss adjusters processes are extremely slow - I was flooded in July 07, the drying out was finally done by Dec 07, the tender wasn't awarded til Feb 08, the builders didn;t start til Mar 08, they downed tools for a month in Apr 08 because they hadn;t recieved the first payment (loss adjusters processes were too slow) - I moved back in Aug 08 - my contents claim has STILL not been settled......etc etc. I too was told I could only sign a lease for 4 months........I was in rented accomodation for 12 months and had to fight the loss adjuster every month to get the tenancy renewed and the rent paid. Best option go for 6 months lease with 4 month break clause and then one month renewable after 6 months. don;t just settle for any old hovel - you are entitled to the same standard of accomodation you are vacating - same number of bedrooms etc.


What do you personally need to do??
a) keep full details/receipts of all mileage/time of work/expenses associated with trying to sort out this claim and recover your losses - yes, you;re right, you will have to spend an inordinate amount of time sorting this out yourself ......I have had to project manage mine too in order to get myself back in the property within 2 years - I have been unable to work full time over the last year becuase of the time involved..
b) at all times take action/decisions to mitigate (ie reduce) your potential losses. I ordered a skip, boxes and packed up/salvaged all my stuff that I could and shifted it to a freinds for storage before the loss adjuster and drying people came in. Most of this was stuff alredy upstairs but at risk because of the damp and mildew - including curatins etc (we couldn't act on the carepts and wet/contaminated items downstairs until after the first loss adjuster had been which was 1 week - second loss adjuster arrived 4 weeks later to re-assess) - after first LA, me and friends stripped all the wet carpets, NB take photos of everything in situ before and after, etc etc
c) ensure you take electric/gas and water meter reading NOW before anyone starts work in your property
d) Fire off a letter of complaint to the insurance company and copy to loss adjuster EACH time there is a delay, stating the time period, what the cause of the dealy is (normally the loss adjuster....) and impact (including financial ) this has caused to the claim amount and your out of pocket expenses
e) remember you are NOT alone - look for help and suport here...it will be a roller coaster ride...and will deffo not go to a 4 month timescale.......(funny how all of us "victims" were quoted a 4 month timescale..........)
f) Be careful how much you put on a public web site such as this and about naming names ref LA and insurance companies....it could jeopardise any claim/complaint you make involving compensation for poor service.......etc etc
g) A picture paints a thousand words and is accepable in court....take photos of everything and anything ensuring times and adtes...and keep copious notes - you never know when it will prove useful further down the line....

There's lots more I could say it may be relevant - it may be not - it may be I don;t want to put it down in public.....- please please PM we with your phone number and I will ring you to help ensure you get the best info I can offer pertinent to your particular situation.........and what to expect once the builders are in :eek: ...and subsequently..... :cool: )

Wishing you a much speedier and less stressful insurance claim than moi.

Wol2
xxx

chevalier

that is a great summary of what you need to do.

I too had a claim go via that loss adjuster. Both they and the people doing the work were lacksdaisical at best with how they worked. And in the end when they had done the work the insurer told us no we aren't going to pay it.... horrifying. We were so naive. So
original poster do what Wol2 says religiously, it will save you no end of agro
chev

abhiman

Hi WOL2 ,
Many thanks for your post. They have changed our LA as our case has been refreed to massive loss deptt. This new guy seems fine and on the case. A surveyor has been appointed who surveyed our house with a guy from Merryhill restoration company. He collected samples to see if we have any asbestos in our walls/ cielings. The report will be out by next week. Also, the surveyor will be project managing the restoration work. We have decided to get quotes from our contractors also.
A strange thing said by surveyor was that the bill of drying our property will come out of our contents insurance. We confirmed this from our LA who told us that this is not the case. Expense of drying comes out of building insurance. However, I have become a bit concerned. Also, the restoration guy told me that it will take 1 week to dry our property as we have fairly modern house but I seriously doubt this.
Also, I'm photographing each and everything but a lot of our clothes have become totally rotten filled with moulds so I,m confused how to make list of clothes for claims.
Anyways, I'm on the case and will keep on updating you

Many thanks again for your valuable information!

dacouch

The cost of drying the building comes out of the Building Insurance Section, any costs for drying clothes of furniture will come out of contents although they normally replace contents rather than try and clean etc.

With regard to listing contents ask the LA but generally they would expect 10 x T shirts at £5, 2 x T Shirts at £10 (Designer), 10 x Socks at £3 etc etc, if you have designer clothes prob best to list them seperately. List the new price of the clothes as the loss adjuster will then take into account "Wear and Tear" on the clothing and linen the rest of your contents are normally "New for Old".

It sounds like everything is starting to get on track as Wol2 said it would be worth building up a rapport with the LA and also keeping on his / her back. As previously suggested keep a note of dates and times etc that things happen and what was agreed. Then use this to keep the new LA on the ball.

As many posters have said it is generally best to use your own local contractors assuming they are a good company. If their price is more than the Insurers tradesmen they normally allow your contractor to match or better their price.

Also keep a note of what moneys you receive in "Cash" and what it is for so you know exactly what you have received and what is due. An Excel document is ideal for this and is probably what the LA will use so it easy for you both to keep track.

I find that now you have a new LA and assuming they are doing a good job a telephone call to their manager and the Insurer to say what a good job they are now doing helps. This will be fed back to the LA and often results in them helping even more.

I hope everything goes well from now on and feel free to keep posting

Wol2

Hi abhiman

I'm pleased to read things are going in the right direction at last.

Ref: drying out - the time will vary depending upon how much water was in the property, how long it was left standing to soak into the fabric of the building and in what areas. Also it will depend upon exactly what they do when they dry out e.g. whether they take plaster off walls and floor boards up as part of the drying out process or leave it in situ until after they issue a drying certificate. The number and positioning of driers will also affect the time and whether you are a flat or house, have concrete floors etc.

Bottom line is that your surveyor/you should not sign off the drying out certificate until your surveyor has performed the necessary readings to confirm it is indeed dried out properly so that restoration can begin.


Next big point you need to watch out for - who signs the contract appointing the survyeor, the drying out team and the builders.....sometimes the contract is with the insurers or loss adjusters but in my case I had to sign a contract ith the surveyor and also a contract with the builders even though the insurance paid the cheques direct. The legal chain of command is very important so don;t sign anything unless you are absoutely sure of the implications (i.e. who gets taken to court by the builders if the insurance don;t cough up or the loss adjusters delay interim payments!)

Good luck - keep posting and feel free to Pm me if you want a chat.

Kind regards
Wol2
xx

abhiman

Hi Wol2,
Many thanks for your reply.
The surveyor told us that we will have to sign a contract with him if we are happy with him overseeing the project. He will give us the papers and I will carefully go through them before signing them.

I will update you on monday with further progress. You guys have helped me so much that I can't thank you enough.

Oscar_The_Grouch

abhiman wrote: »

Hi Wol2,
Many thanks for your reply.
The surveyor told us that we will have to sign a contract with him if we are happy with him overseeing the project. He will give us the papers and I will carefully go through them before signing them.

I will update you on monday with further progress. You guys have helped me so much that I can't thank you enough.

Hi abhiman

I have read your thread with interest. It is a dreadful shame that you did not get a loss adjuster appointed that could deal with your claim properly, which seems to be a common fault with Crawfords (I can't remember the last time I saw a thread on here where the loss adjuster being complained about was not from Crawfords!).

I just wanted to say that it is fairly standard for you to have to sign all the contracts and approve everything - it's your home after all, so they need to get your agreement before anything goes ahead. If you are in any doubt over anything you are asked to sign, don't sign it until you have received an explanation (in writing) and are happy with what you are agreeing to.

As has been mentioned previosly in this thread, people outside of the industry tend to forget that members of the public do not have the insurance or contractual knowledge to deal with claims and may not give you full explanations unless you ask. If there is no one at the loss adjuster, surveyor or insurer office that you can ask (or trust to give you the answer), please do come here for assistance.

One thing you should ask for is a site meeting with the surveyor once he has put his tender together. In basic terms, the surveyor will create a schedule that lists all the work that needs doing to your home and then send it out to several different building firms for quotes. They tell him how much they want to charge for the work and the one that comes in with the most competitive price (anyone quoting a stupidly low price is ignored) gets the work. What you need to do is meet with the surveyor at your home and go through the schedule with him so that you understand exactly what is going to happen and can confirm whether there is anything they may have missed; you know what your home looked like before it got ruined, so are the best person to comment on what needs to be done.

To help the surveyor, send him a letter or e-mail now saying that you would like to have a site meeting with him when he has his schedule of works written. This lets him know that he needs to plan that time into his diary for you which should help get the meeting arranged early.

On the "drying" side, I suggest you keep going back to your home and checking it yourself if you are at all concerned. Find out when the restoration firm are going to be doing some readings on the moisture content of the walls/floors and see if you can be there for one of them - it will help you understand what is going on there and, I hope, give you confidence in what they are doing.

Also, go to Homebase and get some paint samples!! When they redecorate for you, you want to make sure you know exactly what colours you want where, so if you paint up some bits of hardboard (a foot square should do it), you can take these with you to the house and hang them on the walls to see how the colour looks!! It's never the same on the walls as it is in the tin!

Think about the end result rather than the current status; your whole ground floor should be newly redecorated to your own style with you only having to oversee whats going on and not pick up a paint brush!!

My last point; a loss adjusting firm is only as good as the people it employs. Some of the adjusters at Crawfords have been in the industry for years and know exactly what they are doing. It's a shame that their good work is overshadowed by the poor standard of their colleagues.

Wol2

abhiman wrote: »

Hi Wol2,
Many thanks for your reply.
The surveyor told us that we will have to sign a contract with him if we are happy with him overseeing the project. He will give us the papers and I will carefully go through them before signing them.

I will update you on monday with further progress. You guys have helped me so much that I can't thank you enough.

Hi abhiman

Great posts from dacouch and oscar - and now here's a bit more info.

I'm a tad concerned your "surveyor" thought the drying out was covered under contents. You really need to be sure your surveyor is experienced in this type of work. Mine was a Chartered Buildings Surveyor (member of Royal Institute of Chartred Surveyors) and if they are also a member of Royal Institute of Chartred Arbitrators (as mine was) this can be a godsend if there are "issues" with the standard of the work later in the contract which the builders try and wriggle out of.

You also need to check with them on what basis the contract/specification of works to the builders will be issued (they will probably say JCT Minor works Agreement 2005 but if they don;t then you will need to look at this further) and what the method of dispute resolution will be (Arbitration or adjudication or other)...arbitration does not seem to be the default clause any more but my contract did have arbitration as the method ...there are pros and cons for each and your survyeor should be able to explain this. Also ask what the defects period will be (6 months was mine...)

Also ask them at what points during the contract would they envisage making inspections to sign off work ....this should include the following stages
a) when the property is about to be issued with the drying certificate which the surveyor needs to sign off
b) my advice only based on experience - when the walls have been re-plastered and before any paint etc is applied - they should be looking to ensure plaster is properly applied and even ...and dried out
c) if any concrete floors have been laid or re-screed - to ensure proper drying out/level surfaces before laying surface flooring such as floorboards and laminate
d) again - my advice only based on experience...Once all woodwork such as skriting/architraves etc has been affixed prior to final coat of paint - to ensure all surface preparation/filing/sanding etc has been performed properly
e) at least two weeks prior to completion, a snagging inspection
f) inspection at handover as they need to sign the completion certificate (as long as you authorise them to)

They may say it is not necesary to inspect at all these stages - however if they are not willing, I would advise you to perform your own inspection as it could save a mountain of trouble later on........and take a spirit level!!

With regard to the contract with surveyor - just like the builder there should be some type of retention clause on the final payment which they don;t receive until you are satisfied they have done their job properly - and a method of dispute resolution.

As in any profession there are good, bad and indifferent peepies - what you need is someone who is very client orientated, proactive, savvy and not afraid to kick the builders up the bum (as opposed to someone who just sees this as another contract to administer paperwork wise) - after all you are paying them to represent your interests (and protect you from shoddy workmanship, unreasonable billing and ensuring you the client are seen at all times to be behaving reasonably towards the builders even if you have to withold payment because of a dispute). They need to be astute and on the ball to any stunts or "tricks of the trade" the builders might try (e.g. supply of poorer quality materials to those quoted for).

So if necessary ask them for a couple of client references for similar projects before you decide to sign their contract.


If you have any concerns about the way the surveyor reacts to any of your questions, please come back.....

Shall be popping back on a regular basis to see how you're doing so please keep posting ..

Wol2
xx

abhiman

Hi again,
I met my surveyor again on monday as he was making the detailed report of the damage. I asked him whether 'Merryhill' will be providing the drying certificate after completion of the drying process, he told me that they dont issue any drying certificates however he can give us in writing that all the work has been carried out in accordance with current standards. Also he will be checking that with his moisture meter. Could anyone advice whether we take his word or insist on getting a certificate for the drying process.
Many thanks,