Is the recession really Brown's fault?

Generali

Wookster wrote: »

A prime example of a large trade deficit being the UK...

Well spotted...!

SGE1

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

I'm saying that Individuals who are members of political parties are unlikely to have an unbiased opinion on the state of the economy or who's to blame.

I think you're confusing cause and consequence. Rochdale believes XYZ, and as a result, joins the corresponding political party, not the other way around. The fact that he believes XYZ isn't the result of him having joined a party, it's the cause, the reason he joined the party.

MrFonzerelli

SGE1 wrote: »

I think you're confusing cause and consequence. Rochdale believes XYZ, and as a result, joins the corresponding political party, not the other way around. The fact that he believes XYZ isn't the result of him having joined a party, it's the cause, the reason he joined the party.

In practice it's a mix of cause and effect.
Organisations throughout history have been very effective at influencing people.
It would be presumptuous to categorically state one way or the other.

Rochdale_Pioneers

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

In practice it's a mix of cause and effect.
Organisations throughout history have been very effective at influencing people.
It would be presumptuous to categorically state one way or the other.

Yes. But given that I have stated elsewhere my loathing for various members of the cabinet and my despair at several of our policies, it takes a great leap of the imagination to stick me into the party lackey pidgeonhole.

Trust me - people have tried it and it didn't work.....

StevieJ

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes. But given that I have stated elsewhere my loathing for various members of the cabinet and my despair at several of our policies, it takes a great leap of the imagination to stick me into the party lackey pidgeonhole.

Trust me - people have tried it and it didn't work.....

They (the govt) confuse me I am not really sure if they are bright or really stupid. They appear to bow down to the masses for popularity, but I wonder if they have stirred the masses up in the first place. They use the bogey in the cupboard to gradually strip us of our freedoms.

Rochdale_Pioneers

StevieJ wrote: »

They (the govt) confuse me I am not really sure if they are bright or really stupid. They appear to bow down to the masses for popularity, but I wonder if they have stirred the masses up in the first place. They use the bogey in the cupboard to gradually strip us of our freedoms.

They are politicians - of course they're not bright! Policy as defined by chased headlines is going to end in tears every time - not only will they never manage to please everyone but when you have an expectations horison only as long as tomorrow's headlines, things are bound to go horribly horribly wrong in the unconsidered medium and long terms.

What astounds me is that they never seem to learn this rather basic lesson. The politicians that everyone seems to respect are the ones who follow their convictions and stick to them regardless of short-term popularity. I may not like the politics of Ann Widdicombe or Dennis Skinner but you know where they stand. What does Cameron stand for? What does James Purnell stand for? Have the LibDems decided whether to stand for tax cuts or public services* (*delete as electorally expedient) yet?

MrFonzerelli

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

They are politicians - of course they're not bright! Policy as defined by chased headlines is going to end in tears every time - not only will they never manage to please everyone but when you have an expectations horison only as long as tomorrow's headlines, things are bound to go horribly horribly wrong in the unconsidered medium and long terms.

What astounds me is that they never seem to learn this rather basic lesson. The politicians that everyone seems to respect are the ones who follow their convictions and stick to them regardless of short-term popularity. I may not like the politics of Ann Widdicombe or Dennis Skinner but you know where they stand. What does Cameron stand for? What does James Purnell stand for? Have the LibDems decided whether to stand for tax cuts or public services* (*delete as electorally expedient) yet?

Tony Blair seemed to do O.K. chasing headlines. For a while his spin dept practically wrote them. Personally I don't think Gordon Brown is any worse then Tony Blair. However Gordon Brown is not as skilled at media control and gets attacked by the press (and population) far more often.

I'm pretty sure a govt could better fund public services if it wasn't busy funding overseas wars or projects such as ID cards.

If a politician states a policy it gives others (esp media) the opportunity to criticise them. Many have learned to make speeches with no content to avoid the subsequent bad press.

Wookster

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

However Gordon Brown is not as skilled at media control and gets attacked by the press (and population) far more often.

Maybe its the fact that no matter how emotionally charged he is the tone of his voice doesn't change.

Or the funny chin wag thing he does.

StevieJ

Wookster wrote: »

Maybe its the fact that no matter how emotionally charged he is the tone of his voice doesn't change.

Or the funny chin wag thing he does.

!!!!!! doesn't like personal attacks Please stick to the issues.

Perhaps if you'd had as much nasty abuse thrown at you over the last year as I have you might feel a little different.

Wookster

StevieJ wrote: »

!!!!!! doesn't like personal attacks Please stick to the issues.

Perhaps if you'd had as much nasty abuse thrown at you over the last year as I have you might feel a little different.

I'll break ranks then and tell you to p!ss off unless you have something pertinent to say.