Is the recession really Brown's fault?

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

New Labour have done some pretty stinky, bent things, but nothing worse than the Matrix Churchill affair, (except maybe the 'dodgy dossier')

Matrix Churchill were the firm implicated in the Arms to Iraq affair. The govt gave covert support to the company to deal with Saddam Hussein. When the scandal came to light, the Major government denied all knowledge, leaving the Matrix Churchill bosses to face a long jail term. Their trial collapsed when Alan Clark admitted in court that the govt had known all along ('I was economical with the actualite')

I always think of this affair when people claim John Major was a nice, decent guy.

Perhaps. Time will tell. Perhaps they knew all along that what the banks were doing would destroy the capitalist economy for example. After all, most senior New Labour people have extreme left pasts. Of course really that's just a function of student politics - students tend to hold extremist views and more students IME tend to the left than the right. I did.

Perhaps Messrs Brown and Blair are still part of some secret Marxist cabal looking to destroy the system from within.

Not very likely I confess. You never know though.

amcluesent

>You never know though<

It's well known that the entryists of Common Purpose have infiltrated LAs, Police, NHS and are following the 'narrative' of the quasi-communist Fabians,of which Clown and Blair are keen supporters.

The ruination of England by NuLabour is the result of policy not bungling.

setmefree2

macaque wrote: »

To measure the health of an economy, you need to look at more than just GDP. A sizeable part of our GDP has been linked to public spending and rising private debt. This is just not sustainable. We have a huge and growing trade deficit. Again, this is not sustainable. We have a grossly overvalued housing stock. As this deflates, it will have a severe impact on the economy. Our economy has become far too dependant on financial services. As the government is forced to impose tougher controls, the financial services sector will shrink. When it comes to unemployment, we no longer know where we stand. The government have created a complex web of schemes and definitions to hide the true level of unemployment.

On the subject of gloom, I am more optimistic today than at any time time in the past 6 years. I am hopeful that the current difficulties will force a change in attitudes on government and the population. We have got to get back to an ethos of hard work and enterprise.

We have a shrinking trade deficit
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7880829.stm

As for hard work. Everyone I know has been working like mad for the last decade - too much some might say. I can't, however, speak for the people you know - no offence intended.

MrFonzerelli

setmefree2 wrote: »

I'm afraid the facts show this statement to be incorrect.These are the figures or 4th Quarter GDP:-

4th Quarter GDP

USA -3.8
Japan -2.5
Germany -2.2
France -1.8
Portugal -2.0
Finland -4.8%

The UK was -1.5

Britain's economic model is no worse than any other model, and ultimately may prove better. Look at Japan and Germany - it's not great to have an export driven saving based economy, it leads to many problems. You have to develop internal consumption.

Hopefully, it will prove to be that the UK econonmy is more resilient than the (largely) Tory media are suggesting.

I do apprecaite that the UK face massive difficulties. But they are the same difficulties everyone else faces.

I see some people still have their head firmly placed in the sand in support of the "big lie". Boom and Bust is over remember?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

The UK now has a smaller GDP than France and Italy is closing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3270043/UK-now-has-smaller-economy-than-France.html:eek:

Quoting one set of quarterly GDP numbers is not proof of anything, just more propaganda and spin.

Still maintaining the big lie???:rolleyes:

StevieJ

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

I take it from your lack of response, that you couldn't. Don't worry it would take me all night too.:p

Not talking to yourself are you

StevieJ

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes it was what - *all* riots and looting under the Tories?

Don't talk daft woman!

She will get you back for that

ad9898_3

SGE1 wrote: »

I find you more and more offensive by the day.

I just call it as I see it, don't like it ??, use ignore, otherwise grow up.

Just to edit... I see you were wound up enough to pick me up on a slip in the spelling of unequivocal ( a slip of a keystroke in this case rather than an IQ issue , I always think this is scraping the barrel when people have to resort to this IMHO)

The problem with attacking someone personally as regards to this sort of thing is it doesn't take long to find something on them, 2 minutes in this case, Mr 200+IQ:rotfl:, read below, I've highlighted your rather inadequate spelling.:D

Link.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=18642441#post18642441



Er, by that logic then, everyone who voted in this Government is also responsible by proxy?

And every woman who gave both to someone who voted for this Government is also reponsible ???( !!!!!! is that ) reponsible? They are after all part responsible for the "construction" of the "playground" of kids that allowed the Government to "play unsupervised".

:rolleyes:

StevieJ

Just to edit... I see you were wound up enough to pick me up on a slip in the spelling of unequivocal ( a slip of a keystroke in this case rather than an IQ issue , I always think this is scraping the barrel when people have to resort to this IMHO

The problem with attacking someone personally as regards to this sort of thing is it doesn't take long to find something on them, 2 minutes in this case, Mr 200+IQ:rotfl:, read below, I've highlighted your rather inadequate spelling.:D

Is it me or are you scraping the barrel :rotfl:

ad9898_3

StevieJ wrote: »

Just to edit... I see you were wound up enough to pick me up on a slip in the spelling of unequivocal ( a slip of a keystroke in this case rather than an IQ issue , I always think this is scraping the barrel when people have to resort to this IMHO

The problem with attacking someone personally as regards to this sort of thing is it doesn't take long to find something on them, 2 minutes in this case, Mr 200+IQ:rotfl:, read below, I've highlighted your rather inadequate spelling.:D

Is it me or are you scraping the barrel :rotfl:

I was just proving my point Steve that attacking someone's spelling, whether it be a slip of a key or genuinely because you didn't know how to spell is poor form and always comes back to bite your @rse.

I'm absolutely certain you will never have seen one of my posts where because I'm frustrated, or losing and argument I will have a go at someone's grammar.

Rochdale_Pioneers

MrFonzerelli wrote: »

I see some people still have their head firmly placed in the sand in support of the "big lie". Boom and Bust is over remember?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

The UK now has a smaller GDP than France and Italy is closing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3270043/UK-now-has-smaller-economy-than-France.html:eek:

Quoting one set of quarterly GDP numbers is not proof of anything, just more propaganda and spin.

Still maintaining the big lie???:rolleyes:

Quoted from the article:

"The fall in sterling has a dramatic effect on the comparative size of the UK economy, as when international statisticians compare country sizes they do so in dollar terms. In the second quarter the UK's GDP was worth £363.8bn. At that point, with the pound strong at around $2, this equated to $727bn – narrowly ahead of France. However, at today's exchange rate, UK economic output from the same period is worth just $559bn, compared with $606bn in France and $494.7bn in Italy."

So, the UK's economy was exactly the same size as it was. Our output remained the same, its just the currency shift which means that measuring our economy in a foreign currency looks smaller. The Dollar sank under Bush, making our economy magically bigger. It wasn't at all - it made no difference to our output, or our debt levels in relation to that output, or to the number of people in jobs. Now the dollar strengthens and the pound weakens and sudden;y we're sunk according to you? Utter balls. Why not measure the UK economy in relation to the Zimbabwean Dollar or the Icelandic Krone - we'd suddenly have vast growth!

That was in October. In Q4 France contracted faster than we did. What were you saying about propaganda and spin? And where do people like you get off? Does manipulating figures to talk down the UK give you a warm feeling inside? You raise a champagne flute at the news every time you hear about some frightful proles losing their jobs?