Is the recession really Brown's fault?

Jennifer_Jane

The attached link is the South African 2009 Budget speech. I admire their Finance Minister for his common sense, integrity, and humour (a man who has done almost as much for the stability of South Africa as Mandela, but completely unknown outside South Africa). In this speech, Manuel talks about the impact of the credit crunch and the following recession on South Africa, and what he will be spending money on. I have to say, I am full of admiration for the man (and I do realise that South Africa is a much poorer, less powerful nation than UK). I wonder if this is of interest to anyone.

http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/national%20budget/2009/speech/speech.pdf

LauraW10

Jennifer-Jane

Thanks for the link. It is a great shame imho that much of the media coverage of Africa tends to revolve totally around the antics of Robert Mugabe, drowning out much good that is happening on the whole continent, do you not think?

Jennifer_Jane

Hi Laura, yes, thanks for the reply, and I agree with you.

There is a website devoted to 'good news' - it's not propoganda, nothing to do with the Government or anything, just trying to remind people (the locals, I think!) that there is some good news in the midst of violent crime, political corruption trials and so on.

The World is, however, right to focus on Mugabe's atrocities, and of course, so many South Africans understand, but despair of, the lack of push from South Africa until recently.

Jen
PS - the point about my post, however, was that the recession is being imported from Developed into developing nations (per Trevor's speech), and that he isn't cutting VAT or things like that, he sounds like 'a man with a plan' and he's increased the individual tax rebate (ie similar to the personal allowance). A good man.

Rochdale_Pioneers

LauraW10 wrote: »

I'm sorry - yes it was.

Yes it was what - *all* riots and looting under the Tories?

Don't talk daft woman!

macaque_2

LauraW10 wrote: »

Shirley Porter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Porter
While leader of Westminster City Council she oversaw the "Building Stable Communities" policy, later derided as "homes for votes". The policy was judged illegal by the district auditor, and a surcharge of £27m levied on her in 1996. In a review of the biography of Mrs Porter by Andrew Hosken (see: Further reading) Nicholas Lezard in The Guardian described her as "...the most corrupt British political figure in living memory

Mark Thatcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher
the role he played in an attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea, for which role he was fined three million rand (approximately $500,000) and received a four-year suspended jail sentence.

Jeffrey Archer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Archer
He was a Member of Parliament and deputy chairman of the Conservative Party, and became a life peer in 1992. His political career, having suffered several controversies, ended after a conviction for perverting the course of justice and his subsequent imprisonment.

Jonathan Aitken
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Aitken
Jonathan William Patrick Aitken (born 30 August, 1942) is a former Conservative Member of Parliament in the United Kingdom, and British government minister. He was convicted of perjury in 1999 and received an 18-month prison sentence, of which he served seven months.

Matrix Churchill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_Churchill
The Arms-to-Iraq affair concerned the uncovering of the government-endorsed sale of arms by British companies to Saddam Hussein's Iraq. The scandal contributed to the growing dissatisfaction with the Conservative government of John Major and may have contributed to the electoral landslide for Tony Blair's Labour Party at the 1997 general election.
Following the first Gulf War of 1991 there was interest in the extent to which British companies had been supplying Saddam Hussein's regime with the materials to prosecute the war. Four directors of the British machine tools manufacturer Matrix Churchill were put on trial for supplying equipment and knowledge to Iraq, but in 1992 the trial collapsed, as it was revealed that the company had been advised on how to sell arms to Iraq by the government. Several of the directors were eventually paid compensation.

There are plenty more - Neil Hamilton for starters

Posters called labour sleazy. I just showed them what sleazy really looks like, just in case they are too young to know.

People are losing their life savings and pensions (or whats left of their pensions after Gordon Brown's tax raid). Those with savings are having their incomes ravaged by low interest rates. Millions of people are losing their jobs and many are losing their homes. In terms of damage from the credit crunch we are the worst off of all the developed economies. After 10 years of New Labour, the country is in a shambles. Your response is to resurrect a smear campaign of 15 years ago. It is also worth noting that Mark Thatcher was never an MP and the other people mentioned were all punished. No senior Labour politician has been put on trial let alone go to prison (despite plenty of smoking guns).

You have boasted about your political position in relation to the Rochdale Pioneers. Political leanings are judged by ideology not degree of hatred.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes it was what - *all* riots and looting under the Tories?

Don't talk daft woman!

Sorry to butt in - but name me one good thing that happened under the Tories? All I remember is strife. However, I do live in Liverpool, maybe things were different elsewhere.



PS we are booming now. You wouldn't recognise our town centre. Don't think the Toreis will be winning many seats here;)

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

macaque wrote: »

People are losing their life savings and pensions (or whats left of their pensions after Gordon Brown's tax raid). Those with savings are having their incomes ravaged by low interest rates. Millions of people are losing their jobs and many are losing their homes. In terms of damage from the credit crunch we are the worst off of all the developed economies. After 10 years of New Labour, the country is in a shambles. Your response is to resurrect a smear campaign of 15 years ago. It is also worth noting that Mark Thatcher was never an MP and the other people mentioned were all punished. No senior Labour politician has been put on trial let alone go to prison (despite plenty of smoking guns).

You have boasted about your political position in relation to the Rochdale Pioneers. Political leanings are judged by ideology not degree of hatred.

Calm down - economic activity has gone back to the levels of 2007 not 1937. Get some perspective.

1) Mortgage holders don't complain when interest rates go through the roof what makes savers so different?

2) Unemployment is only at levels of a few years ago - where you complaining then?

3) LOL you haven't even read today's news. Did you not see the GDP figures out of Europe. Did you not see Germany's figures?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/
Country's need consumers & investors. People who tuck their cash under the mattress are no use to anyone.

4) The country is not a shambles - that is scaremongering

5) The United Kingdom has the 5th largest economy in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_Kingdom

And finally, given the amount of bile piled on the Labour Party on this board, I think you have a cheek picking on this poster.

And Finally, finally you should stop reading the daily torygraph.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

Sorry to butt in - but name me one good thing that happened under the Tories?

I take it from your lack of response, that you couldn't. Don't worry it would take me all night too.:p

itsnever2lateisit?

Wookster wrote: »

Who's to blame... the question to vex us.

I lay blame at the door of

1. Bankers who lent too much
2. Individuals who borrowed to much
3. Estate agents who encouraged people to borrow too much and used sharp practise to squeeze people.
4. Credit rating agents for giving packages of MBS AAA+ ratings when they were more like BB-
5. Auditors for not reporting on banks over reliance on wholesale financial markets or the vulenrability of banking assets to a downturn.
6. Central bankers for not raising rates WHEN THEY KNEW THAT CRAZY RISKS WERE BEING TAKEN and that asset price bubbles were being formed.
7. World president's & Chancellor's (Crash included) for presiding over this lax regulatory framework
8. Crash for increasing the government deficit when it should have been maintained or reduced - had he done so he'd have more dry powder for this dark time.

Now these are the people I would most like to see before a congressional hearing/ Parliamentary committee, no doubt in my mind that they mis-sold Securities

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

By the way Laura forgot to mention something truly unforgivable that the Tories did which was to support apartheid




Of course there was also the miners strike





Greenham Common


Not to mention the Falklands War, the problems we had with the Irish including the hunger strike and mass terrorism, the cold war, the Westland Affair, the Liverpool Dockers strike

and there was always that charmer Norman Tebbit who told us all to "Get on our Bike"

Gee - we have so much to look forward to.:rolleyes: