Council PCN - Ticket expiry query/10 mins grace...?

katie84

Hi guys!
I recently received a PCN from Birmingham City Council whilst parked in a city council pay and display car park.
My ticket expiry time was 15.56.
I arrived a little after this (during the 10 mins grace period) to find I had just been booked, and the attendants walking away.

The PCN reads as follows:
Time: 16.06
Observed from: 16.06
Observed to: 16.06

**Pay and display expiry time: 16.06
Does this mean my ticket's expiry time, or the total expiry time including the grace period? Surely then I should've been booked 16.07...?

Please, please help!!
Can you see any irregularities in the PCN?
Should I argue that the Pay and Display expiry time is wrong as my ticket expired 15.56? Or should I not mention my ticket at all and just say that it was indeed 16.06, but that no grace period was given?
I don't know how to approach this.

I really would appreciate your advice.

Thanks, Katie.

peter_the_piper

Post up the ticket and parking ticket, erasing personal details, and let the experts look at it, there are often errors in them. Use the information in the stickies to post, use a digital camera/mobile phone or scanner.

Neil_B

The answer is quite simple I'm afraid. 'Bloke in pub' lied to you! What 10 minute grace period?

Expiry of P&D is instant issue.

katie84

Hi. I'm afraid I can't figure out how to post images, but all the info is in my first post.

If anyone would like the photos of the pcn by email so as to help me a little...?

Also they didn't insert my Vehicle Tax Disc No in the PCN, only the Vehicle Tax Expiry. Does that help my case in any way?

And lastly, I actually called Birmingham City Council myself and asked how long the grace period is, and I was told 10 mins...

Thanks again

Orford

Scan the document into your computer and open it in Paint or similar program. Edit out the personal information and identifying numbers etc.

Save itas a jpeg file

Open an a/c on Tinypic here: (TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting )

Click the "upload image" box and browse to find the file of your scanned jpeg on your hard disk

It will then upload the image to Tinypic and it will show you thumbnails of the images you have uploaded. Under each image there are links that you can copy and paste.

Copy and paste the IMG Code link from Tinypic to the reply box on your thread here, which will look like this:

[IMG www. tinypic.com/yourname/imagename.jpg{\IMG][/img]

When you submit the reply, the link will change into the image you uploaded onto Tinypic.

greenface

katie84 wrote: »

Hi. I'm afraid I can't figure out how to post images, but all the info is in my first post.

If anyone would like the photos of the pcn by email so as to help me a little...?

Also they didn't insert my Vehicle Tax Disc No in the PCN, only the Vehicle Tax Expiry. Does that help my case in any way?

And lastly, I actually called Birmingham City Council myself and asked how long the grace period is, and I was told 10 mins...

Thanks again

no they didnt :rolleyes: little fibber;)

katie84

Hi!
Thanks a lot for the info.
Below are links to the fine, and my actual parking ticket.
I promise I did call the Bham City Parking Section immediately after I got the PCN, and I was told 10 mins. I do however appreciate that this is not set in stone, and they could argue that it's a "grace period" and thus not obligatory for them.
I would really appreciate your help as the final day for appeals is Monday.
Many thanks again.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Penatly Charge Notice:
IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/hwmgbc.jpg[/IMG]

Parking Ticket:

katie84

greenface

could you make that a little bigger for us olease
I think the gods need to see all of both sides absolutly all inc payment details dates and reg.codes

TheBogsDollocks

My favourite advice on P&D is thus.......Insist on having a copy of the CEO's log book and all photos taken by them.

CEO's are meant to consult the P&D machine clock before issuing you with a PCN for expiry. The reason being is that expiry time can only be correctly judged by the machine clock as this was the machine used to print the time on your ticket.

The log book will need to have a note saying that either the hand held computer was synchronised with the P&D clock or was at least consulted just as the DfT guidance recommends is done. Failing a note in the log book then the CEO should have taken a photo of the P&D clock and you can compare this time to the time stamped on the photo.

Basically if the P&D clock was not consulted there is no conclusive evidence against you as there is the possibility the hand held computer was ahead by however minutes between ticket expiry and PCN issue.

Obviously the length of time between the two will have some bearing but even if it's as much as 20-30 minute's I would still argue the point as it is not unreasonable to say that the held held computer was 30 minutes out of synch with the P&D clock. Of course the authority are unlikely to accept this at first go, but ultimately they will have to prove to an adjudicator that the P&D clock was consulted as DfT guidance recommends. If it was not then you have a reasonable chance of winning.

katie84

Hi guys.
All I need to know is
1. Does the fact that the vehicle tax disc number is missing from the pcn help me in any way?
2. Is the expiry time on the PCN supposed to be including/excluding the 10 mins grace time?

Many thanks