ebay and paypal will not pay us for fraud

carolmck

hi first time so be gentle, we sold a gold chain on ebay to a person from nottingham last august 2008, they received it as they left good feedback, they deposited £540 with paypal, fine ,then put a hold on the money as they said the card had been used fraudently so they got their money returned by paypal ,so now have the money and the gold chain, i ,of course contacted both ebay and paypal as we are left with nothing and we are pensioners,after long discussions with both firms they said they they couldn't do anything, are they not insured for this kind of fraud, surely so? anyway i did contact the nottingham police and they went to see them and they both said NO COMMENT . so i still dont know what is going on and would like your firm Martin to advise me what to do next and any one else to help us if possible xx carol

soolin

Firstly please remove your email address from the post, spam bots may pick it up and you'll have even more problems.

OK, firstly when did paypal first tell you that the claim had been raised? Secondly, I hope you still have your special delivery slip and that online tracking shows that the item was received and showing a signature. Print that off ASAP and keep hold of it.

I suspect this will be dealt with under the old rules, but it can still be defended but you will have to be persistent with paypal and with the buyer. Contact the buyer, send the letter tracked, and say that a claim has been made that it was not them that used the card, sort of say that you imagine this is a mistake as you can track the item to their door and say that as you no longer have the item or the money you have been advised that paypal will assist in taking legal action. That gives them a way to suddenly remember they used the card (scammers aren't always very bright and may not have remembered that you have their address).

Meanwhile keep on at paypal, explain that you sent it to a confirmed address and have proof of delivery and a signature, be persistent.

If all that fails take the buyer to small claims.

soolin

I would also add that I heard an identical story to this a month or so ago, gold item again and I'm sure it was Nottingham. In that instance seller got their money back from paypal as they had complied with all the requirements for posting and online signature, but that was under the new rules which are better for sellers, I also recall it being a much more expensive loss.

That buyer was working a complicated scam with two addresses and his mother with gold but was arrested and he had left one hell of a trail as he wasn't very bright. It might be worth asking on the community forums as I think the person that told me the story had got help on there from other sellers who had been scammed as well.

carolmck

SOOLIN THANK YOU BUT I DIDN'T SEND IT REGISTREDED so stupid,

soolin

carolmck wrote: »

SOOLIN THANK YOU BUT I DIDN'T SEND IT REGISTREDED so stupid,

In that case there is absolutely nothing that can be done. All the usual avenues I would suggest to fight this are impossible as you have no proof of receipt , you can't even go to small claims.

Do you even have proof of posting? There is a miniscule chance that paypal may forget their own rules and deal with this under the new rules where proof of posting only is needed to fight a claim for fraudulent use of a card, but it really is only the merest chance.

Chippy_Minton_2

Phone back the Police and find out the result of their enquiry, then post back. I know the suspect went no comment. Were they actually arrested and if so whats happening now?

soolin

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

Phone back the Police and find out the result of their enquiry, then post back. I know the suspect went no comment. Were they actually arrested and if so whats happening now?

I think it was the police that said 'no comment'.

I still think though that sending £540 of gold through the post uninsured and with no tracking is not going to help when trying to get the police interested here. Fraud is easier to prove if the victim can prove loss, here it is just the OP saying that it was sent, with no proof who actually got it. If the original buyer was using a hijacked account then it might not be a fraudulent chargeback, it might be a genuine buyer who has only just discovered that their paypal account was compromised and used to buy things. Therefore the person claiming the money back now might be a victim as well.

OP do you have the address to which the gold was sent, can you get details from paypal as to whether the address is the same one that is now on file for the buyer?

POSSETTE

[STRIKE]
Nottingham
[/STRIKE] sorry Shottingham, i hate the flippin place its full of thieves and guntotin' druggies...THATs why i hate my postcode!!:mad:

best wishes for your claim..pls do special delivery next time.

pinkshoes

soolin wrote: »

I still think though that sending £540 of gold through the post uninsured and with no tracking is not going to help when trying to get the police interested here. Fraud is easier to prove if the victim can prove loss, here it is just the OP saying that it was sent, with no proof who actually got it.

It was indeed crazy to send something so expensive in the post with no tracking or insurance.

The buyer has left positive feedback, saying it was received. Is that not evidence that the transaction took place and the item was received?

I would certainly send a recorded delivery letter to the address, saying that unless the money is paid, then you will be taking small claims action against them. The threat might work, so is worth a try.

RFW

pinkshoes wrote: »

The buyer has left positive feedback, saying it was received. Is that not evidence that the transaction took place and the item was received?

If it specifically says it was received and mentions the item. I've had feedback left when the item hasn't been received (either by accident ie meant for someone else or because they knew it would arrive from me). As someone else said you would also have to prove that the account was not hijacked and then prove that the item was in the buyer's posession.

carolmck

thanks all ,we did send a recorded letter to the address 8 weeks ago ,it was returned not at this address, the people said to the police NO COMMENT ,i had to send a photo of the chain to nottingham police in the central station so when they searched the premises they could identify the chain,we were so stupid ,will they have sold it on by now?will it be in a jewellers in nottingham?shall i post a photo of it ?,will i say their names ?should i say their address?