Maximum distance between parking-bay signs (London, Westminster C zone, pay by phone)

MoonKookie

Hello,
I recently received a PCN, for parking in a meter bay without having paid. (Code 11u - parked without payment of the parking charge - mobile phone parking)

It was one of the newer breed in London Borough of Westminster, C Zone, where the meters are gradually being replaced by pay-by-phone parking, and the meter stalks had recently been removed.

As it is a bay of 4 pay-by-phone spaces adjoining the Residents Parking section (for which I have a valid permit), I didn't notice a cut off point between the two sections, so assumed I was parked correctly in the residents bay.

There is no signage at the crossover point between the two bays, although it does have a band of 2-3 white lines. Other than a sign at the far end of the meter bay, the actual tarmac/kerb has no additonal markings.

Question: do you know whether there is a maximum allowable distance between two signs, that could possibly invalidate the PCN?

E.g. the distance between the sign indicating Residents bay, and the sign saying parking bay, is 106ft /32 metres apart.
I've searched the forum and as much road traffic act info as I could fiind, as I'm sure there is something on maxium distance between signs.

Apologies if my info is vague... first post. All help very gratefully received.

TheBogsDollocks

If a parking bay is 30m or less then the DfT guidance is that one sign is adequate and it is recommended it is placed in the middle of the bay. If a bay is longer than 30m then it is advised that the first sign should be no more than 15m from the beginning of the bay and then further signs should be no more than 30m apart. This can be found in the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3 under section 7. Below is an excerpt giving guidance on where two bays meet.

7.51 Where two different parking bays are side
by side (e.g. a loading bay adjacent to a disabled
badge holder bay), consideration should be given to
mounting two signs side by side, preferably on a grey
backing board, at the changeover point. Each sign
should include an arrow pointing in the direction of
the respective bay. This should minimise the risk of
drivers parking in the wrong bay by mistake and
incurring a penalty. Where the assembly would not
be too tall, the signs could be mounted one above
the other. The sign with the left-pointing arrow

should be at the top.

MoonKookie

Many thanks for your help TBD. I'll update the post with any developments.

MoonKookie

Sorry, forgot to update.
Westminster Council took this through to the adjudicator stage. Conveniently, they failed to attend, failed to present any further evidence, and therefore the PCN was dismissed.
Had it gone through the adjudicator, they could have created precedent, which may have left them open to further claims for cancelling PCN's

blackadder01_2

Hope you claimed for costs.