UPDATED: Air Source Heat Pumps/Air Con - Full Info & Guide, is it cheaper to run than mains gas?

bushyh

A response


My e mail to you following receipt of the report from Calorex was sent so that you could see, without limitation, their observations, responses and overall conclusion. Having further discussed the matter with Calorex and noting your own preferences, I have discounted the option of an additional ASHP.

During the recent spell of extremely low temperatures, issues surrounding most makes of ASHP have been encountered countrywide and my understanding is that varied solutions are being incorporated into already existing installations to ensure that similar problems do not happen going forward.

Whilst I note your comments regarding both Calorex and their response I believe they have provided a structured approach to deal with this issue as detailed to you. The exchange of the refrigerant can be carried out in a day and we would propose to do this as soon as we can agree a date for this work. A time clock would be installed to operate the immersion heater to boost the system for only 1 or 2 hours a day and a frost thermostat would also be installed at the same time.

In the unlikely event this in unsuccessful then we will look to install the back up boiler which we would situate in the garage.

At this point in time I do not see a situation where the ASHP is exchanged for another manufacturer nor do I see a situation whereby the complete system is removed and replaced with a domestic boiler. If a support boiler is required it is likely to be in addition to the ASHP and not in replacement of. I do not agree at all with the ‘botch job’ statement that you make. Going forward any work that is to be carried out under Greenplan’s direction will be from Contactors we source and appoint.

I note your comment about seeking further professional advice. Please advise if this is route you wish to take as I will need to inform the Administrators of your intentions.

I look forward to speaking to you soon, hopefully to agree a date for the exchanging of the refrigerant and to bring this to resolution.

thechippy

How's it doing now in the higher ambients??

bushyh

Funnily enough warm tonight, I have just turned Thermostat down but probably the first evening it has been so since the few days after christmas that were very mild. I have just found the Heat Pump Association on line guess what the president is a Calorex man so probably wouldn't get much sympathy there. Interestingly a neighbour has just had her gas bill which was about £580 so not a million miles away from mine given she would also have to add eletric costs to hers to compare like with like. My Dads gas bill his house is probably half as big again was £800 ish. So perhaps the cost isn't so way out except for the fact of course we were cold.

richardc1983

bushyh wrote: »

A response


My e mail to you following receipt of the report from Calorex was sent so that you could see, without limitation, their observations, responses and overall conclusion. Having further discussed the matter with Calorex and noting your own preferences, I have discounted the option of an additional ASHP.

During the recent spell of extremely low temperatures, issues surrounding most makes of ASHP have been encountered countrywide and my understanding is that varied solutions are being incorporated into already existing installations to ensure that similar problems do not happen going forward.

Whilst I note your comments regarding both Calorex and their response I believe they have provided a structured approach to deal with this issue as detailed to you. The exchange of the refrigerant can be carried out in a day and we would propose to do this as soon as we can agree a date for this work. A time clock would be installed to operate the immersion heater to boost the system for only 1 or 2 hours a day and a frost thermostat would also be installed at the same time.

In the unlikely event this in unsuccessful then we will look to install the back up boiler which we would situate in the garage.

At this point in time I do not see a situation where the ASHP is exchanged for another manufacturer nor do I see a situation whereby the complete system is removed and replaced with a domestic boiler. If a support boiler is required it is likely to be in addition to the ASHP and not in replacement of. I do not agree at all with the ‘botch job’ statement that you make. Going forward any work that is to be carried out under Greenplan’s direction will be from Contactors we source and appoint.

I note your comment about seeking further professional advice. Please advise if this is route you wish to take as I will need to inform the Administrators of your intentions.

I look forward to speaking to you soon, hopefully to agree a date for the exchanging of the refrigerant and to bring this to resolution.

What utter twoddle!

They havent addressed the concerns, such as how they plan to have the 2 heat pumps communicate with each other etc etc. Why do they need to boost the system for two hours a day, if the system was powerful enough on its own they wouldnt need to do this? It seems to me that they are trying the cheapest they can use.

Decent manufacturers equipment as far as I am aware has been operating perfectly fine in the cold weather as long as they have been sized correctly. My LG system has worked fine and I am not having to take other precautions etc. Any system designed and sized correctly has worked fine during the cold snap, however cheap nasty systems that dont run below 5C dont stand a chance.

I think you have two options get them to install the other ASHP (scrap the gas change as this will put stress on your compressor) or take legal action... you have a good case.

You are comparing to your neighbours house, what you need to remember is they have spent that much on heating but they were probably toasty warm at 22C with it cranked right up.

You have spent the equivalent and might as well have just had electric heaters in some of the rooms as and when you needed them! At least you would have been warm. You may as well have just burned the money because that is what the system has done.

THey seem like cowboys to me who dont know how these systems work. I just dont understand how you need to boost the system for 2 hours a day? What is that going to achieve when its cold because that "boost" they are reffering to isnt going to give you the heat you need for the rest of the day once the heat has dissipated from the system.

bushyh

Thanks rc your comments made me smile and I'm not generally finding the subject very humourous. My fear is do I really have a case or would I be throwing money that I would be better putting towards funding a pump myself - do I use my local solicitor to wing a letter off or is it worth trying to do something through the legal cover I have on my house insurance - any views on that one? Presumably it would be helpful to have an independent technical report to support (hopefully!) my case how do I go about finding someone locally to do that and at what cost? - chippy you can probably answer that one for me.

zeupater

bushyh wrote: »

Thanks rc your comments made me smile and I'm not generally finding the subject very humourous. My fear is do I really have a case or would I be throwing money that I would be better putting towards funding a pump myself - do I use my local solicitor to wing a letter off or is it worth trying to do something through the legal cover I have on my house insurance - any views on that one? Presumably it would be helpful to have an independent technical report to support (hopefully!) my case how do I go about finding someone locally to do that and at what cost? - chippy you can probably answer that one for me.

Hi

Considering that it's a new build it might be an idea to contact the NHBC and talking this through with them (you should have detals in your homeowner pack from the builder).

HTH
Z

bushyh

NHBC aren't interested - first 2 years is builders responsibility after that bricks and mortar only, they will apparently help to mediate. Also worth saying that company that built out was put together for purpose joint venture with RBS and Wolsey Building supplies (being the main creditors) between them I guess they have some fairly hefty legal boffins - certainly through exchange of contracts everything was seemingly having to be approved by 3 sets of solicitors both companies plus the administrators - I had forotton that point. I have been dealing with guy who originally owned site as he continued to build out but under salaried employment for the administrators

thechippy

bushyh wrote: »

Thanks rc your comments made me smile and I'm not generally finding the subject very humourous. My fear is do I really have a case or would I be throwing money that I would be better putting towards funding a pump myself - do I use my local solicitor to wing a letter off or is it worth trying to do something through the legal cover I have on my house insurance - any views on that one? Presumably it would be helpful to have an independent technical report to support (hopefully!) my case how do I go about finding someone locally to do that and at what cost? - chippy you can probably answer that one for me.

Hi Bushy,

I'll have a look for you foc and see if I can do a report.
I agree with Richard, it's a load of nonsense - the system is underpowered period - and imo not fit for purpose.

The property should have had a system twice that size.

I'm busy for the next few days, but we'll keep in touch....:D

bushyh

Thank you guys I have just done a holding response to say I have the note but want to revist the statistical data in the calorex brochure and on their previous report. I have mentioned the bill (and the fact we were cold most of the time) and asked whether they foresee that going up or down with their proposals. Slumber time now cheers all.

thechippy

bushyh wrote: »

A response


My e mail to you following receipt of the report from Calorex was sent so that you could see, without limitation, their observations, responses and overall conclusion. Having further discussed the matter with Calorex and noting your own preferences, I have discounted the option of an additional ASHP.

During the recent spell of extremely low temperatures, issues surrounding most makes of ASHP have been encountered countrywide and my understanding is that varied solutions are being incorporated into already existing installations to ensure that similar problems do not happen going forward. Not with most air to air ones!

Whilst I note your comments regarding both Calorex and their response I believe they have provided a structured approach to deal with this issue as detailed to you. The exchange of the refrigerant can be carried out in a day and we would propose to do this as soon as we can agree a date for this work. A time clock would be installed to operate the immersion heater to boost the system for only 1 or 2 hours a day and a frost thermostat would also be installed at the same time. A clear admission the system is undersized. The change in refrigerant will be a small improvement, as the condensing temp of 407c is higher, but I don't think this is enough. Adding a timeclock to run the immersion a couple of hours a day will add about £20 per month to your electric bill.
Fitting the frost stat will achieve what?

In the unlikely event this in unsuccessful then we will look to install the back up boiler which we would situate in the garage. Will it be a gas boiler?

At this point in time I do not see a situation where the ASHP is exchanged for another manufacturer nor do I see a situation whereby the complete system is removed and replaced with a domestic boiler. If a support boiler is required it is likely to be in addition to the ASHP and not in replacement of. I do not agree at all with the ‘botch job’ statement that you make. Going forward any work that is to be carried out under Greenplan’s direction will be from Contactors we source and appoint. It doesn't mean the contractors will be any good!!

I note your comment about seeking further professional advice. Please advise if this is route you wish to take as I will need to inform the Administrators of your intentions. Carry on seeking more advice

I look forward to speaking to you soon, hopefully to agree a date for the exchanging of the refrigerant and to bring this to resolution.

Note my comments in red...;)