'Should we trade with China?' poll results/discussion

Rolandtheroadie

teddyco wrote: »

I am getting sick and tired of going into Marks and Sparks and seeing every last stitch of clothing, shoes or housewares with 'made in china' plastered all over it.
To make matters worse, many of the stitching falls to pieces after one wash, soles on ladies shoes are cheap, cheap, cheap and require a re-sole after several months of wear, and strange chemicals in chocolate and children's toys are now cropping up.

Gordon Brown made the statement 'British jobs for British workers', but has continued to shake hands with companies who shift the majority of their operations overseas and I am ready to see this rascal GONE!

I would rather pay £10 more for a shirt of £15 more for a pair of shoes and do with fewer possessions knowing that industry, craftsmanship and jobs in this country were being protected for the betterment of British workers and their families.

Absolutely true and why I would never shop at M&S. They destroyed large sections of British Manufacturing when they started buying in cheap inferior goods from other countries.
You get what you pay for with most things in life, we're a nation of cheapskates these days.

Jacks_xxx

We try very hard to buy ethically and "Buy British" but as a previous poster remarked, almost everything seems to have "Made in China written on it these days and we often fail to find a British made equivalent.

Although if you're a fan of M&S non iron shirts as my hubby was I recently discovered they do great Made in England ones at Charles Tyrwhitt:

http://www.ctshirts.co.uk/p/ukgo/r/Web-Department/Men's-Shirts----Formal/Web-Category/Non--iron-Shirts/productlisting.aspx?ppp=12&sortBy=Relevance&page=1&back=False&canned=&browse=Y

Sometimes we bite the bullet and buy the Made In China thing anyway - for example in the case of the Nintendo Wii for my daughter's birthday - but usually it means that just do without, or repair the one we've got, or get something similar that is made in this country.

They call it spending power for a reason.

I can't stop Gordon Brown trading with China but I am fully in charge of my own spending, and *I* choose not to trade with China. (Nintendo Wii excepted. )

I'm_With_Stupid

Electrical products are always a pain anyway. "Made in" might be where it's assembled, but the components could be made in a completely different country, and the materials that are used in the components in another place altogether.

rseymour

guidel wrote: »

It's a shame people voting Strengthen Trade only think about their own country and themselves.....Selfish....If only you could put yourself in their position, you'll be sick to think that some people would rather be influenced by the financial aspect of their life rather than .....HUMAN RIGHTS. My own view, nothing else

I disagree... I think strengthening trade over time will provide a stronger economy and over time will reduce human right issues. However, I feel that they need the opportunity to develop their GNP like developed nations and with this will allow more human rights development. If we try to ignore them in this situation, nothing will happen and it will continue as at present.

Jacks_xxx

alexjohnson wrote: »

Why do you think this is more ethical?

Where did I say I thought it was?

Shopping ethically and buying British are two separate but not mutually exclusive concepts.

malamala

Thanks to our biased media and prejudice towards countries which we don't know well, we believe all the bad things that is said about them.

I have visited China many times and have colleagues working there, China is not as bad as how it is portrayed on the news.

There is massive improvements over the last 20 years, but no, people fail to see that, they only remember cultural revolution, Tiannamen Square and believe China is the same. I think China still needs to improve but it is definitely not a monster to its people.

Sadly too many people think they are experts in China affairs, but really they are just ignorant. They enjoy standing on the high moral ground though. Laughable.

Jacks_xxx

malamala wrote: »

Thanks to our biased media and prejudice towards countries which we don't know well, we believe all the bad things that is said about them.

I have visited China many times and have colleagues working there, China is not as bad as how it is portrayed on the news.

There is massive improvements over the last 20 years, but no, people fail to see that, they only remember cultural revolution, Tiannamen Square and believe China is the same. I think China still needs to improve but it is definitely not a monster to its people.

Sadly too many people think they are experts in China affairs, but really they are just ignorant. They enjoy standing on the high moral ground though. Laughable.

Hmm...and given the option to educate people who aren't as well informed as you, or abuse them - you chose...?

malamala

mcgazz wrote: »

Trade between the UK and China is not one-way. We sell them financial services (insert your own joke here), environmental technology and luxury and sporting goods. They also reprocess a lot of our domestic refuse. Cutting all ties with China would destroy UK jobs, lead to more rubbish processing (or even landfill) here, as well as leading to much higher prices and much less choice in things like clothes/shoes, toys, and consumer electronics. It's one thing to make high-minded statements on an internet messageboard, another to suffer a hefty drop in one's living standards.

Also, what country has a perfect human rights record? Are you going to boycott pretty much all of Africa, Central America, the Middle East, South Asia, Russia, a fair bit of Eastern Europe, and the USA (torture, tasers and Guantanamo Bay, anyone)? And what about the Western corporations involved in these human rights abuses (eg Coca Cola's murder of trade unionists in South America)? Will you boycott them as well? What countries are legit, here? As an example, OTOH, even uber-right-on Scandinavia isn't perfect - Norway's whale hunting, Sweden's harsh treatment of teenage anti-capitalist protesters and former programme of sterilising women with learning difficulties, the marginalisation of the Saami (Laplanders) in both countries, and religious intolerance in Denmark.

You'd still be a hypocrite, anyway - Britain's human rights record isn't that hot, either. We've got people interned without trial, freedom of speech is restricted, we've got more CCTV per head of population than any other country in the world, MPs' confidentiality isn't respected, and it's not that long ago that we were doing similar things in Northern Ireland and several former colonies to what China are alleged to be doing in Tibet now. I'm no fan of the Bible, but I think "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is a cracking line.

If you want China's human rights record to change, the best way is to engage them on the issue, not throw a strop, engage in some hypocritical and unsustainable boycott and spend your free time hunting down Romanian-made jeans and Turkish shoes, while your children complain that they're bored with Lego being their only toy (you will, of course, have junked your TV/DVD/PSP/hi-fi because they will almost certainly contain Chinese-made components, even if they were largely assembled elsewhere).

Very well said.

A lot who complained about China do not really care about human rights there, they only care about themselves but use human rights as a weapon to attack others.

jicms

Hear hear. Animal and baby torturing is rife in china. Hard to believe a nation with such high IQs behave in such a way. I can't visit China for fear of what I might see if I go near a market.

MothballsWallet

I'm_With_Stupid wrote: »

Electrical products are always a pain anyway. "Made in" might be where it's assembled, but the components could be made in a completely different country, and the materials that are used in the components in another place altogether.

Same with anything else, really. Doesn't EU (and therefore UK) law state that you can say that something was "Made In Britain" (or wherever) if the final assembly was in Britain, but the components can come from anywhere you like?