'Should we trade with China?' poll results/discussion

m00head

It's more difficult than you think to give up Chinese imports...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-460902/How-woman-said-No-Chinese-imports.html

Voyager2002

guidel wrote: »

It's a shame people voting Strengthen Trade only think about their own country and themselves.....Selfish....If only you could put yourself in their position, you'll be sick to think that some people would rather be influenced by the financial aspect of their life rather than .....HUMAN RIGHTS. My own view, nothing else

Now wait a minute...

Can you point to any requests from Chinese human rights activists for us to suspend trade? I don't think so.

I supported the boycott against apartheid South Africa because the lead was set by the brave people organising the struggle for freedom. In the case of China, I am willing to follow the lead of those Chinese people who are working for a more humane society. I am not going to tell them what tactics they should follow, since that would be another form of imperialism.

And let us remember that China has lifted more people out of poverty over the last twenty-odd years than any other country, at any time in human history. Freedom from hunger for millions is worth something, even if it does not come with freedom to criticise the government.

Voyager2002

I think the poll asked the wrong question, since there is no reason to believe that restricting trade with China would help improve human rights. The real question is, should Britain push strongly for improved human rights in China, even if the Chinese might respond by restricting trade with us.

Deco

Fireman_sam wrote: »

This is a really interesting question, which, to me, speaks volumes about the one way mirror that we in the ‘civilized’ West view much of the rest of the world. We are taught much, through our schooling and our media, of the crimes of others but next to nothing of our own crimes.

If you take a simple look at some random examples of the crimes Britain and the US have carried out then it becomes clear that the human rights abuses of China pale into insignificance when compared to ours.

Take for instance the following examples:

Indonesia – Britain and the US gave training, funding, and military equipment to brutal dictator General Suharto who slaughtered an estimated 500,000 to a million human beings. Kissinger, on behalf of the US, gave him the green light for the killings.

Vietnam – at least 2 million Vietnamese (a quarter of those killed in the Holocaust) were slaughtered by the US. The chemical weapons they used are still causing horrendous birth defects today.

Cambodia – as a side show to the Vietnam War the US bombed Cambodia killing an estimated 500,000 human beings. This led to the rise of Pol Pot who stepped into the power vacuum and enacted a genocide of monstrous proportions. Britain and the US then went on to fund and train his movement the Khmer Rouge in exile. Why? Because Vietnam liberated the country.

Iraq– The first gulf war caused the deaths of 250,000 Iraqis. Our sanctions on the country then caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children. Round 2 ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ has so far caused the deaths of over a million Iraqi human beings and poisoned their country with radioactive depleted uranium which, like Vietnam, is causing monstrous birth defects. And don’t forget that it was the CIA that installed the ruling Ba’ath party from which Saddam emerged (described by the CIA man responsible as ‘my favourite coup’).

Africa - It is current British policy to export arms and military equipment to ten out of 14 of Africa’s most war-bloodied and impoverished countries.

I could go on and on and on. We are, simply stated, in no position whatsoever to moralise with other countries when it comes to human rights.

As it says in the Bible, “You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Ditto

I also find it absurd how it is now the country of the people who work there being blamed. Should we blame African farmers for the minute payments they get on their cocoa beans.
Western companies set up shop in lesser developed countries to take advantage of cheap labour. None of these countries would dare make a law against it or they would lose thousands of people their jobs and hurl them into even greater poverty possibly even starvation. The same applies for the African Farmer

teddyco

When Gordon Brown uses the phrase 'strengthen trade', I would hope that he means for China to buy more from the UK as opposed to the UK buying more from China to even the playing field.
Everyone knows about the massive trade disparity that currently exists with China and has existed for many years.

I also find it rather two faced of the government to scorn any talk in the Houses of Parliament of 'moving towards a protectionist society'. Our whole economy is based on protectionism:

1. Restricting large grocery stores from small villages to protect the small business person is protectionism.
2. Anti-trust and anti-monopoly rules that prevent large corporations from destroying smaller operators are protectionist.
3. Rules that govern the banking system and keep overdraft charges to a reasonable level are protectionist.

Also, I don't think anyone with any intelligence would think that we would ever cease trade completely with China. That argument is a red herring, and will never happen, at least not in my lifetime.

LesD

MSE_Martin wrote: »

That would've been easy - GB said he wants to "strengthen trade" - the idea from the poll was about seeing if people agreed

OMG - did he really??? Yikes, this poll gives him a majority!!!!

Must be the first poll for ages where he's come out on top.

PROLIANT

bo_drinker wrote: »

Keep to a minimum I say. We need to make things again and sharpish. Plus the human rights, they can not be trusted. Simple as.

I will second that.

I'm_With_Stupid

I wonder if those who say that everyone should "be ashamed" for wanting to trade with China have ever been to Burma or North Korea to see what effect their do nothing attitude has? Or maybe Iraq and Afghanistan to see what a military intervention has achieved? China is one country (Vietnam is another) that has seen decent human rights progress in the past 20-odd years. And that has come from a willingness to open up and embrace trade with the West.

liberty1264

I don't think this should be discussed on moral issues, but purely on trade alone, after all we have very little to be proud of when it comes to human rights issues, and a lot to be ashamed of, just think of the aborigines, the maoris, the indian subcontinent, and african slave trading not so many years ago, ask the indians what they think of general dyer.
If we stopped trade with China our shops would be vertually empty, we can't replace this stock with home good's as we no longer have any manufacturing capacity, Why because our own people stopped buying home produced goods and went for cheapness and poor quality to save a couple of quid regardless of putting their neighbours out of work so we have got our just desserts.
The solution for us is to try and buy good quality home produced goods then manufacturers will come back to supply the demand we will overcome our unemployment problems and maybe just maybe make this country great again, Putting up trade barriers is not the answer free trade must prevail If you feel others are not trading fairly with you the solution is in your hands,

POWER_2

CHINA IS DOING WHAT THE VICTORIANS DID. AND THAT IS TO GET PRODUCTIVE AND SELL TO THE WORLD. GET THEIR PEOPLE WORKING LIKE SLAVES FOR A LOW WAGE, (just like Britain did in the 19th century)