PPI Reclaiming Discussion part 4

scootermacc

Hi all.

OK, this is complicated, so bear with me.

I post here as a lesson to others to COMPLAIN IN WRITING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but that a 6 year complaint window may NOT be the end of the story (TBC), and to also be wary about the first response you receive from the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

I currently have an active complaint against Lloyds TSB for PPI sold for a loan taken out in 1998. The loan and accounts with the bank were closed in 2001. I complained about misselling first in 2005 verbally after the bank contacted me about some PPI overpayments we had made. This made me investigate further the entire selling process, and it was then that I found out about the PPI misselling that was going on - through this very site (thanks). I then finally complained in writing in 2006. I received a final response from the bank in 2008, after various backward and forward conversations and requests for information under the Data Protection Act(DPA).

The complaint then went to the Financial Ombudsman Service in August 2008, and today I have been notified that this has finally been referred to an actual Ombudsman for a final decision.

Between August and today I have been dealing with an FOS Adjudicator (not an Ombudsman). He first told me that my complaint was 'out of time' as we had not complained within the pre-requisite 6 year period laid down in the Finacial Services and Markets Act, under something called DISP 2.8.2. This states that the 6 year period starts from when the original basis of the complaint started (ie the taking out of the PPI), or WHEN THE CUSTOMER COULD BE REASONABLY AWARE THAT THERE WERE GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT. After clarifying the timelines, he changed his mind and agreed that we HAD complained within 6 years of being aware of grounds for complaint.

However, he then considered that it would not be "fair and reasonable" on the bank to investigate the case after this long passage of time, as they do not have complete records. He also stated that the bank are not legally required to hold records for an indefinite amount of time - but he cannot confirm to me what this actual period of time is. It may be 2 weeks for all I know.

Anyway, I have argued against this. Mainly on the basis that the bank provided me with all of the information they held about our loan and PPI when I had requested it under the DPA. As the FOS had agreed we complained within an appropriate time frame, I argued that the bank has no less information at hand now than it had when I asked for the information under the DPA, so it IS fair and reasonable to investigate the case.

He did not agree, so has now referred it to an Ombudsman for final decision.

So our case has not actually been seen yet. After 4 years of complaining and waiting, it seems the Ombudsman may throw this out as it is "unfair on the bank", even though they have agreed that we complained in a timely manner. I am not sure what else I could have done, other than put my formal complaint in a little earlier than I did.

Right now I think my case will effectively be thrown out on a technicality, with the bank using the defence that 'we destroyed all the paperwork'.
My advice to you all is to complain as early as possible and keep the pressure on. Time is of the essence.

ta, scott.

PS if anybody with vastly more experience than me can comment on whether there is anything else I can do, i would appreciate it. thanks.

marshallka

scootermacc wrote: »

Hi all.

OK, this is complicated, so bear with me.

I post here as a lesson to others to COMPLAIN IN WRITING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but that a 6 year complaint window may NOT be the end of the story (TBC), and to also be wary about the first response you receive from the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

I currently have an active complaint against Lloyds TSB for PPI sold for a loan taken out in 1998. The loan and accounts with the bank were closed in 2001. I complained about misselling first in 2005 verbally after the bank contacted me about some PPI overpayments we had made. This made me investigate further the entire selling process, and it was then that I found out about the PPI misselling that was going on - through this very site (thanks). I then finally complained in writing in 2006. I received a final response from the bank in 2008, after various backward and forward conversations and requests for information under the Data Protection Act(DPA).

The complaint then went to the Financial Ombudsman Service in August 2008, and today I have been notified that this has finally been referred to an actual Ombudsman for a final decision.

Between August and today I have been dealing with an FOS Adjudicator (not an Ombudsman). He first told me that my complaint was 'out of time' as we had not complained within the pre-requisite 6 year period laid down in the Finacial Services and Markets Act, under something called DISP 2.8.2. This states that the 6 year period starts from when the original basis of the complaint started (ie the taking out of the PPI), or WHEN THE CUSTOMER COULD BE REASONABLY AWARE THAT THERE WERE GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT. After clarifying the timelines, he changed his mind and agreed that we HAD complained within 6 years of being aware of grounds for complaint.

However, he then considered that it would not be "fair and reasonable" on the bank to investigate the case after this long passage of time, as they do not have complete records. He also stated that the bank are not legally required to hold records for an indefinite amount of time - but he cannot confirm to me what this actual period of time is. It may be 2 weeks for all I know.

Anyway, I have argued against this. Mainly on the basis that the bank provided me with all of the information they held about our loan and PPI when I had requested it under the DPA. As the FOS had agreed we complained within an appropriate time frame, I argued that the bank has no less information at hand now than it had when I asked for the information under the DPA, so it IS fair and reasonable to investigate the case.

He did not agree, so has now referred it to an Ombudsman for final decision.

So our case has not actually been seen yet. After 4 years of complaining and waiting, it seems the Ombudsman may throw this out as it is "unfair on the bank", even though they have agreed that we complained in a timely manner. I am not sure what else I could have done, other than put my formal complaint in a little earlier than I did.

Right now I think my case will effectively be thrown out on a technicality, with the bank using the defence that 'we destroyed all the paperwork'.
My advise to you all is to complain as early as possible and keep the pressure on. Time is of the essence.

ta, scott.

PS if anybody with vastly more expericne than me can comment on whether there is anything else I can do, i would appreciate it. thanks.

Scott, what I cannot understand is that you say you complained in writing to Lloyds in 2006 and it was 2008 they sent their final response. They should only have 8 weeks to provide a final response (although you as a consumer would not have known that) to your complaint. Why did it take them 2 years? If you have all the information for your complaint could you let the FOS have it that way if Lloyds are saying they do not have it?

elfen

Got a letter back off the Halifax today. With the info I gave them they had my credit card number, apologised for me being unhappy with the PPI (well, sorry, but if you get a call saying someone's ill and then don't let them use the PPI what do you expect) and that they would be investigating further.

Now to wait for the one off Cap1

whiteheather_2

Hi All,
Not sure if i'm posting this right,only 2nd time here.
Have recieved documents from Welcome concerning account i had with then, unfortunatly they only sent details of my last loan with them. Have since sent off letter requesting details of previous loans with them as requested in SARS letter(thanks for this ).
Only yesterday recieved letter from them saying the request was being dealt with and i should recieve this info shortly. They then went on too say that any request for info concerning commission too brokers or 3rd parties was not covered by data protection act as i am not mentioned, so as such this info will not be forth coming.
Don't know what too make of that one?

Whiteheather

di3004

whiteheather wrote: »

Hi All,
Not sure if i'm posting this right,only 2nd time here.
Have recieved documents from Welcome concerning account i had with then, unfortunatly they only sent details of my last loan with them. Have since sent off letter requesting details of previous loans with them as requested in SARS letter(thanks for this ).
Only yesterday recieved letter from them saying the request was being dealt with and i should recieve this info shortly. They then went on too say that any request for info concerning commission too brokers or 3rd parties was not covered by data protection act as i am not mentioned, so as such this info will not be forth coming.
Don't know what too make of that one?

Whiteheather

Hello there hun.

Wishing you luck with this.

To what I am aware of in regards of reclaiming commission etc, this does not come part of the general part or reclaiming for PPI, to do this I think you would have to go through a solicitor, I am not sure to be honest but hopefully someone will be able to clarify on this for you.
I do note though the SAR does ask them for these details, so maybe some do receive these details on requests, depending on how lenient the bank is, it can be handy to know though I expect.

Good luck with your reclaiming.;)

mlucyminx

OCEAN FINANCE UPDATE

FOS ruled in my favour regarding mis selling of ppi of about £2.500. Ocean have written back to FOS offering me jus under £700. apparently trying to change the original front loaded loan to a monthly premium???????

Obviously I rejected their pathetic offer and have been informed it will now move from adjudicator to an actual ombudsman.

I have a horrible feeling I am going to end up losing out big time on this case.

the total loan for ppi with interest added was over £4,000 so with interest and everything I was looking at about £5k.

How can that horrible rip off company get away with so much?

cot1198

mlucyminx wrote: »

OCEAN FINANCE UPDATE

FOS ruled in my favour regarding mis selling of ppi of about £2.500. Ocean have written back to FOS offering me jus under £700. apparently trying to change the original front loaded loan to a monthly premium???????

Obviously I rejected their pathetic offer and have been informed it will now move from adjudicator to an actual ombudsman.

I have a horrible feeling I am going to end up losing out big time on this case.

the total loan for ppi with interest added was over £4,000 so with interest and everything I was looking at about £5k.

How can that horrible rip off company get away with so much?

What a cheek! that really is a pathetic offer.
I really hope the FOS take Ocean to task on this and the FSA get strict with them and give them a big fine like they have with Swinton, that should make them think a bit. Stick to your guns, I'm sure the Ombudsman will uphold the adjudicator's ruling and make Ocean pay you the correct amount. The sooner Ocean and companies like them realize this the better, and stop wasting our time and the FOS's time.
Good luck and please keep us posted

amersall

mlucyminx wrote: »

OCEAN FINANCE UPDATE

FOS ruled in my favour regarding mis selling of ppi of about £2.500. Ocean have written back to FOS offering me jus under £700. apparently trying to change the original front loaded loan to a monthly premium???????

Obviously I rejected their pathetic offer and have been informed it will now move from adjudicator to an actual ombudsman.

I have a horrible feeling I am going to end up losing out big time on this case.

the total loan for ppi with interest added was over £4,000 so with interest and everything I was looking at about £5k.

How can that horrible rip off company get away with so much?

i agree with cot1198 on this one, keep at it and keep us posted x

tiggrae

scootermacc wrote: »

Hi all.

OK, this is complicated, so bear with me.

I post here as a lesson to others to COMPLAIN IN WRITING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but that a 6 year complaint window may NOT be the end of the story (TBC), and to also be wary about the first response you receive from the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

I currently have an active complaint against Lloyds TSB for PPI sold for a loan taken out in 1998. The loan and accounts with the bank were closed in 2001. I complained about misselling first in 2005 verbally after the bank contacted me about some PPI overpayments we had made. This made me investigate further the entire selling process, and it was then that I found out about the PPI misselling that was going on - through this very site (thanks). I then finally complained in writing in 2006. I received a final response from the bank in 2008, after various backward and forward conversations and requests for information under the Data Protection Act(DPA).

The complaint then went to the Financial Ombudsman Service in August 2008, and today I have been notified that this has finally been referred to an actual Ombudsman for a final decision.

Between August and today I have been dealing with an FOS Adjudicator (not an Ombudsman). He first told me that my complaint was 'out of time' as we had not complained within the pre-requisite 6 year period laid down in the Finacial Services and Markets Act, under something called DISP 2.8.2. This states that the 6 year period starts from when the original basis of the complaint started (ie the taking out of the PPI), or WHEN THE CUSTOMER COULD BE REASONABLY AWARE THAT THERE WERE GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT. After clarifying the timelines, he changed his mind and agreed that we HAD complained within 6 years of being aware of grounds for complaint.

However, he then considered that it would not be "fair and reasonable" on the bank to investigate the case after this long passage of time, as they do not have complete records. He also stated that the bank are not legally required to hold records for an indefinite amount of time - but he cannot confirm to me what this actual period of time is. It may be 2 weeks for all I know.

Anyway, I have argued against this. Mainly on the basis that the bank provided me with all of the information they held about our loan and PPI when I had requested it under the DPA. As the FOS had agreed we complained within an appropriate time frame, I argued that the bank has no less information at hand now than it had when I asked for the information under the DPA, so it IS fair and reasonable to investigate the case.

He did not agree, so has now referred it to an Ombudsman for final decision.

So our case has not actually been seen yet. After 4 years of complaining and waiting, it seems the Ombudsman may throw this out as it is "unfair on the bank", even though they have agreed that we complained in a timely manner. I am not sure what else I could have done, other than put my formal complaint in a little earlier than I did.

Right now I think my case will effectively be thrown out on a technicality, with the bank using the defence that 'we destroyed all the paperwork'.
My advice to you all is to complain as early as possible and keep the pressure on. Time is of the essence.

ta, scott.

PS if anybody with vastly more experience than me can comment on whether there is anything else I can do, i would appreciate it. thanks.

this 6 year rule comes originally from the Statute of Limitations Act 1980 (ie you have 6 years to chase a 'simple debt'.) - you could commence proceedings against Lloyds in the County Court as it would be then upto a Judge whether he heard the case or not - but BE VERY CAREFUL - CONSULT A SOLICITOR - becasue the risk is that you have it struck out before it's allocated to the Small Claims Court which means you'll be liable for their costs if you lose the strike out application

tiggrae

whiteheather wrote: »

Hi All,
Not sure if i'm posting this right,only 2nd time here.
Have recieved documents from Welcome concerning account i had with then, unfortunatly they only sent details of my last loan with them. Have since sent off letter requesting details of previous loans with them as requested in SARS letter(thanks for this ).
Only yesterday recieved letter from them saying the request was being dealt with and i should recieve this info shortly. They then went on too say that any request for info concerning commission too brokers or 3rd parties was not covered by data protection act as i am not mentioned, so as such this info will not be forth coming.
Don't know what too make of that one?

Whiteheather

what they mean is that if you were sold the ppi through a 3rd party they are not obliged to send you that - so if you were sold the welcome loan say through a garage then it's to them you have to apply - also, if you were sold through a garage etc,. any reclaim of ppi should be made to them and not Welcome as they are the ones who sold you the ppi in the first place