Ebay Seller Wont Supply VAT Invoice - Anyway Round This?

Tea3

Spent almost an hour on the phone to ebay today going through this many many times with not much luck as the lady I was talking to had no idea what was going on (her english was very poor, and despite me talking slowly and clearly she was obviously struggling). She eventually said I would be contacted in 1-2 days but I dont hold out much hope. I was trying to explain (clearly I thought) that I bought 1 pack at £2.99 as instructed to by the seller but they said they would amend the invoice to show the 40 that I was actually buying - instead of this they sent me an invoice for 1 pack @ £2.99 and in 'seller discounts' on the invoice '+£116.61' bringing the total to £119.60 (the same as 40 x £2.99 per item). I explained that this meant they only paid fees on 1 pack @ £2.99 and also that my invoice only shows 1 pack which is not what I need (did not even go into the vat issue with her as she was struggling enough with this already). She kept saying so he charged you £116.61 postage - I was like noooo the invoice clearly says next to postage FREE - the box underneath for adjustments says '+£116.61' as an 'adjustment' - at this point she was totally lost and I hd to explain to her how she could locate and view an ebay invoice to see what I meant. I stopped short of informing her that she worked for ebay and reminding her of her own name (not due to language problem more because I think she did not have a clue) and said fine I will await someone calling me back - arghhhhhh!

Feedback left (negative of course) and I will report them to HMRC - I dont think they are vat registered but companies (like me) are paying more for these items because they think they can claim the vat back when in fact they cant - I would have been cheaper elsewhere and only went with this seller because the vat of £15.60 could be claimed back (not a huge amount but times this by how many sales they get by using this ploy and it could be alot as they are powersellers on ebay).

RFW

hendrix wrote: »

Thanks for the info :-) One question i must ask though. If i'm paying the flat rate of 9% can i still add the VAT to my ebay items so i can get my fees VAT free? Same with Play.com, they say if you register your VAT number with them you will get your fees VAT free. My accountant wasnt so sure and thinks it might affect my 9% VAT status.

No you can't claim if you are on the flat rate scheme. Get a new accountant if he is unsure of VAT rules!

You can always contact the VAT office about these things, they are very helpful.

hendrix

RFW wrote: »

No you can't claim if you are on the flat rate scheme. Get a new accountant if he is unsure of VAT rules!

You can always contact the VAT office about these things, they are very helpful.

Thanks for that, in all fairness he was 99.99% that i couldn't and was against me doing it (which i never) but it crossed my mind to do it.

Tea3

Update - got this in feedback - think he still believes paying ebay VAT means vat is included in the price - and he is a powerseller!!!!

Feedback:
Seller claimed vat included when not & messed up invoice and wont reply - AVOID Buyer: xxxxx ( xxxxx)
02-Feb-09 12:46

• Reply by xxxx (02-Feb-09 19:00):
  See ebay for details 'Fees (Includes Luxembourg VAT of 15.00% where applicable '
• • Follow-up by xxxxx (03-Feb-09 09:44):
    Paying ebay vat does not mean YOU are vat registered! Check with HMRC!

scheming_gypsy

why did you leave bad feedback? you ordered 1 item and asked him to bill you for 40 which he did, albeit differently to what you'd expect.
From the thread i'm guessing the auction was for 1 item so he hasn't avoided paying fees on 40 as you won 1 item and then asked for 39 more additionally?
Can you change the quantity of items when you send the invoice? isn't that automatically entered and you can't modify it? if you buy 1 then you get invoiced for 1.

You asked if it included VAT, he didn't charge you x amount + VAT. Did you ask before the end of the sale if they'd include a VAT invoice?

Personally i can't see they've done anything wrong. They didn't charge you VAT on top of the price and then not send you a VAT invoice and the invoice probably doesn't have a price and then the VAT added on top.
You asked a question, they gave an ambiguous reply, you didn't chase it up to clarify and you got a standard eBay printed invoice / receipt.

my couple of tips are:
1 - if you want 40 of something buy 40, don't just win an auction for 1 and ask for an additional 39. Why should they pay eBay charges on the other 39 when they only sold 1 through an eBay auction?
2 - if you want a VAT invoice, message the seller prior to buying and make sure they will provide you with one.

that's if i've read it right.

Tea3

Before bidding/buying I had several emailed conversations with the seller and specifically asked a couple of times if vat was included - one of the replies from him is posted higher up this thread and he clearly said that vat WAS included, therefore I paid more from him than from another seller as I would be able to claim vat back from hmrc thus making him cheaper. In three emails in total he mentions the vat being included and from his feedback response you can see he STILL believes vat is included in the price!

I asked the seller in advance how much the price would be for 40 of these - he said £119.60 (same price as auction for 40 / £2.99 each) but he would send free post. I agreed and ASKED HIM to add an auction for 40 as he only had a couple on sale. He said to buy one and he could amend the invoice to show it was for 40 (as he is a powerseller I assumed he knew what he was talking about so bought 1 and awaited my invoice). He sent this weird adjustment invoice and I queried it before paying as it was not showing vat or correct amount - he said it was ok and that correct full vat invoice would be in the parcel when it arrived. When nothing was received paperwise I contacted him again and thats when he said ebay invoice would do etc - I explained it at least had to say I bought 40 packs of this item even if vat not mentioned but he emailed me ebays vat information then stopped replying.

The ebay 'invoice' provided says
1 pack @ £2.99
Post FREE
Adsjustments £116.61
Total £119.60

This is not only useless for vat purposes it is also useless as an invoice as the 'adjustment' of £116.61 could be for anything - postage, non vatable items like magazines etc - could also be for £116.61 of personal items I bought therefore cant even put it through the business accounts. I emailed the seller many times to ask for the vat invoice and he STILL thinks he is vat registered because he pays VAT on his fees to ebay!! As a powerseller I would expect him to know better and as a seller in general in the UK he should know the rules on vat or at least whether he is registered or not -please note that most of his items are wholesale items so he is selling alot to other businesses in which case many many vat registered people buying from him may have problems with this. I would NOT have left negative if he had responded to emails or tried to help sort this out or even held his hands up and said ' sorry i'm not vat registered I got mixed up' but he still claims to be including vat in the items which he is NOT. People are also paying him thinking that 15% is going to vat man when it is not (an offence to claim vat from people when not vat registered).

I think as he stopped responding, messed up the invoice, cost me over £100 I cant claim back as a business invoice, claimed to be vat registered when not and only paid fees on 1 item then yes he did deserve a neg, and as a seller myself (albeit not on ebay anymore) I dont easily give these out.

frivolous_fay

If I wanted to know if someone was VAT registered, I wouldn't ask if VAT was 'included'.

VAT is included in all prices on ebay. You're not allowed to add VAT separately anymore.

Tea3

As they were a power seller and sold tons of things I assumed when asking if vat was included they would answer correctly and would know wether they could send a vat invoice/receipt - I explained prior to paying and after receiving ebay invoice that I needed a vat receipt as the ebay 'invoice' was not enough for hmrc/vat records due to not showing vat and showing only 1 pack not 40 - again they say no problem it would be included in delivery. They said vat was included and would send correct invoice showing 40 packs with the vat etc. Even if the vat was not included I would have only lost £15.60 on sale, most annoying part is only receiving the invoice for 1 pack and not the 40 bought and not getting it amended to show what I bought. I still feel the negative was deserved as I asked several questions before buying and then only purchased based on the sellers replies that a) vat was included and b) he would ensure I received a vat receipt showing 40 packs purchased - neither of which was true unfortunately

RFW

frivolous_fay wrote: »

If I wanted to know if someone was VAT registered, I wouldn't ask if VAT was 'included'.

VAT is included in all prices on ebay. You're not allowed to add VAT separately anymore.

Just to be ever so slightly pedantic, all prices on Ebay are not VAT inclusive as not all items are subject to VAT and/or not sold by VAT registered sellers.

I get your point that in this case a simple "are you registered for VAT?" would probably have been a better question, but I'm not sure Tea3 could have know that he was dealing with an idiot.

It is amazing considering what a serious offence it is that some sellers don't have the slightest grasp of what being VAT registered means.

If you are selling on Ebay as a business and aren't registered HMRC will find you for tax and/or VAT purposes, they have a special department set up for it.

I'll also add that it is not compulsary to wait to go over the VAT threshold to register, you can register before and in some cases it is advantageous to do so.

Accountants and HMRC themselves are available to give advice.

frivolous_fay

RFW wrote: »

Just to be ever so slightly pedantic, all prices on Ebay are not VAT inclusive as not all items are subject to VAT and/or not sold by VAT registered sellers.

No, I'm happy for you to be pedantic because I can't fully get my head round it.

VAT can't be added to ebay purchases (as used to be permitted) so does this mean we're buying zero-rated goods, then? I note that my PO receipts say they're not a VAT receipt - does that mean they don't charge VAT, or that they can't be arrassed to break it down?