Ok, so who else has been "gazundered"?

QTPie

Do not take offence (let alone serious offence)! Because definitely none was intended :A

I still think that buyers should be wary of ANY buyer, but particularly FTB (just because they can afford to be more cavalier). That doesn't mean that I believe that you or any other FTB WILL do wrong or that you should be treated any differently (FTB are obviously highly prized buyers ), but that sellers should be aware of the potential pitfuls and to think things through in advance (so they are no taken completely by surprised if something does happen and are prepared, if appropriate, to negptiate). This advice might actually help FTB who gazunder - because it might avoid the seller's knee-jerk reaction to tell them to "go away and pro-create with themselves"... Not that I want to help gazunderers, but I would like to help sellers work through such a situation to find the best solution for them.

As stated above, it may be a "dog eat dog" world, but we choose what we make this world. Just because something is commonplace neither makes it right nor acceptable for us to do (even if others do it).

As a FTB, I would welcome you with open arms: I would treat you with respect and try very hard to fulfll allof your criteria and needs. I wouldn't just do this now, I would do it in a rising market too.

I wish you great luck with finding a house: I hope that you find something wonderful and at a good price. I also hope that you fully research you offer, before you make it, so that you can stick to it. Obviously there are situations where a sale should be renegotiated (i.e. things found in the survey or searches), but otherwise try to ensure that the offer agreed is something hat you can stand by

QT

SavingSteve wrote: »

QTPie I appreciate your explaining your situation further, and as your now rightly admit anyone can gazunder, I just think it is down right wrong to suggest it is particulary FTBs that people should be wary of.

It's dog eat dog out therem and ethics seem to have gone out the window.

I'm with you btw, I think gazundering and gazumping are deplorable, but that is the world we live in.

Reason for my offence - I am a FTB, and I would hate for a potential seller to be fearful of selling to us because they had got it in their head that a FTB will more likely gazunder than someone in a chain.

besonders1

I agree its a cruel and selfish world we live in, but when money comes into the equation, there is no such thing as right or wrong. Its like the "look after No.1 and let No.1 look after you, saying."

QTPie

RobertoMoir wrote: »

Oh absolutely, that's how it works. That's what I was saying.

We could, of course, try to change the way it works to close these 'loopholes' but then people would just find other ways to gear the system. Essentially any process like this assumes that the participants are fundamentally honest at some level and therefore is always vulnerable to people who are not.

Does the basic Scottish system (i.e. where offers are much more binding at an early stage) have ways to gear the system?

Any communities of "fundamentally honest" people that I can move into around?

QT

QTPie

besonders1 wrote: »

I agree its a cruel and selfish world we live in, but when money comes into the equation, there is no such thing as right or wrong. Its like the "look after No.1 and let No.1 look after you, saying."

Which is probably a huge part of the reason why we are in this recession in the first place - certainly a lot to do with a mixture of greed (including people borrowing what they cannot afford) and unethical lending... (lending to people who blatantly can't afford it in the name of making a profit). All of which drives up prices and forces people to see to borrow more outside of their means...

We make the world that we live in... if people take responsibility for their actions AND people take some care in the treatment of others, the world would be a better place.

Cidersid

ok, OH and me are looking a house thats been on market for 18 months, it started at 325k and has worked it's way down to 225K now...long and short of it we have to move and we really like this house and want it!

i have a huge deposit of about 150k should i put a cheeky offer of 175 in to test the water?? reading on here i should be embarrassed by this but i aint!! maybe i should put a lower one in???;) my wife is embarrassed by 175k thinks we should offer MORE!!! blooming women!!! then again it's my money she's spending!!!

i know it's a buyers market out there!!

Poppy9

I'm sure people wouldn't have such high morals in gazundering a house building company like Barratts.

Lots of buyer of new property in the position of committing to buy a new build months before completion. House prices have now fallen, mortgage offers lapsed, withdrawn based on lower valuation of the property so buyer can no longer afford to buy. It's not as if the house builder can make back the difference to the reduced price by passing it up the chain.

To be perfectly honest I don't blame your former buyers for doing what they did. Nothing worst than buying a new house and being in negative equity, especially if it's not their "forever" house and they may have to relocate due to work committments. While you may not have to sell they might know they have to be prepared to sell and move on again with 1, 2 or 3 years. Prices may not have recovered by then and they might still be in negative equity.

No matter what you think your house is worth it's only worth what someone will pay.

I've been gazundered but I choose not to accept the reduced price. It was 1993 and it wasn't a FTB but a middle age couple. A few weeks before she decided to drop the price by £4k (not a fortune now but considering I was selling for £45k it was quite a big drop and it wasn't a falling market locally and I had two other offers if this one didn't proceed. Sold to the other buyer no problem. I didn't bear any ill will to the first buyer who was trying it on. It was her money and I admired her cheek. She did buy a house across the road from me but didn't like having a bus stop outside her front door and no garage or parking so I think she moved again within a couple of years.

If I was looking to move in a falling market and I felt the house had devalued since my original offer then I would either pull out or reduce my offer. It's my money and a major purchase so I will make sure I look after it properly.

Have you considered that this couple no longer wanted your house but had found somewhere they liked the same/better but cheaper. I never stop looking while I'm buying as anything could happen.

When I bought in 94 a house we liked was for sale at £111k when these houses were going for £90k max. They thought their house was worth the extra because it was immaculate and they were leaving carpert/curtains and light fittings (who takes these with them when you are selling your house for thousands it's such an insignifcant part of the purchase - I love it when they say that "carpets and fittings are subject to separate negotiation!" not to me they aren't:D ). Anyway I made friends with the seller a couple of years later and she said they had eventually sold for £91k after over a year on the market and turning down £98k and £94k quite early on. She said her husband was determined that his house was worth £110k but eventually gave in when his wife threatened to leave him:rotfl:

Poppy9

Cidersid wrote: »

ok, OH and me are looking a house thats been on market for 18 months, it started at 325k and has worked it's way down to 225K now...long and short of it we have to move and we really like this house and want it!

i have a huge deposit of about 150k should i put a cheeky offer of 175 in to test the water?? reading on here i should be embarrassed by this but i aint!! maybe i should put a lower one in???;) my wife is embarrassed by 175k thinks we should offer MORE!!! blooming women!!! then again it's my money she's spending!!!

i know it's a buyers market out there!!

Was £325k realistic at the peak of the market? If not what was it worth at the peak (use one of the internet property companies to see what houses there sold for).

Around by me houses that were £300k at the peak are selling for £240k now.

QTPie

Cidersid wrote: »

ok, OH and me are looking a house thats been on market for 18 months, it started at 325k and has worked it's way down to 225K now...long and short of it we have to move and we really like this house and want it!

i have a huge deposit of about 150k should i put a cheeky offer of 175 in to test the water?? reading on here i should be embarrassed by this but i aint!! maybe i should put a lower one in???;) my wife is embarrassed by 175k thinks we should offer MORE!!! blooming women!!! then again it's my money she's spending!!!

i know it's a buyers market out there!!

No, why should you feel embarrassed? Make whatever offer you like - they can only turn it down. If you want it that much, you can increase your offer: nothing ventured nothing gained...

BUT - as a seller - what I do ask is that you make an offer that you feel that you can commit/stick to (unless for obvious circumstance - like the survey or searches coming back with something). Please do not go in at £175k, have it accepted, proceed with it, then just before survey/completion reduce it to £150k... It is gazundering that is the complain here, not initial offer price.

Ngotiate an offer that is agreeable to both side, but don't then rsult to dirty tricks to shave another £25k off the price...

Be upfront and straight with the buyers - treat them as you would want to be treated yourself. Yes it is a buyer's market, but if it was a sellers market, would you like to be messed around and have your lives playd with? If not, then give others the same rspect

QT

QTPie

Poppy9 wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I don't blame your former buyers for doing what they did. Nothing worst than buying a new house and being in negative equity, especially if it's not their "forever" house and they may have to relocate due to work committments. While you may not have to sell they might know they have to be prepared to sell and move on again with 1, 2 or 3 years. Prices may not have recovered by then and they might still be in negative equity.

No matter what you think your house is worth it's only worth what someone will pay.

That i all fine, but people should make all of those decisions BEFORE they offer: no-one should be going into a house sale without considering what they are willing to pay for a house and how long they intend to be there for.

As I said, we accepted an offer 10% below the asking price (and £10k bellow what e wanted to accept): we were not being unreasonable - infact we came down to meet the buyers. They originally offered £410k (when the house had been on the market a week at an asking price of £459k). We declined, they immediately came back with an offer of £415k (last and final offer) - which we also declined. The house had only been on the market a week. Didn't get any more offers, but those same people ame back 3 weeks later and offered £420k. I had originally hoped to get £430k (from the, at the time, realistic £459k asking price). They came back and said that £420k was all they could afford, but they loved the house and really wanted it. Although £420k was less than we anted to accept, we decided to accept it and "move on". I even through the F&F in because I just didn't want to quibble on a thousand pounds of lighting and curtains etc. This offer was in early/mid December. A condition of sale was that we complete by 5th Feb (since that was when their mortgage offer expired). This really wouldn't be easy - since with Christmas in the middle and with us being out of the country between 28th Dec and 20th Jan. I BENT OVER BACKWARDS to ensure that exchange could happen in our absence and that we could move out before Feb 5th (doing all the paperwork post haste, leaving power of attourney with our solicitors, finding a rental property to move out to, leaving a cheque for the holding deposit, arranging removals for 1st & 2nd Feb).

The sale fell through mid-Jan when they delayed their survey and demanded a price decrease to £380k.

Up until that point I had done EVERYTHING I COULD to ensure that sale went through... Buyer's market maybe, but I am not prepared to give them my house for nothing AND wipe their bottoms too.

Poppy9 wrote: »

Have you considered that this couple no longer wanted your house but had found somewhere they liked the same/better but cheaper. I never stop looking while I'm buying as anything could happen.

No, that couldn't have happened - they had to complete before their mortgage offer expired: this house was do or die for them. They would not have had the time to drop out of the sale with us and buy another house before their mortgage offer expired... I think that they nolonger wanted our house "enough" and got cold feet because of the media coverage over the knew year: they were no commited enough to the sale.

To be perfectly honest I am not convinced that - even if we had agreed the £380k - whether they still would have gone through with it: some people are never happy and just cannot commit...

(now I am going to find out that the buyer posts here too... :rolleyes: )

QT

Poppy9

QTPie wrote: »

No, that couldn't have happened - they had to complete before their mortgage offer expired: this house was do or die for them. They would not have had the time to drop out of the sale with us and buy another house before their mortgage offer expired... I think that they nolonger wanted our house "enough" and got cold feet because of the media coverage over the knew year: they were no commited enough to the sale.

You can't blame them getting cold feet since Xmas as the recession has started to bite now with rising unemployment and I don't think anyone feels 100% safe in their job. If it's their first house purchase they are better to be cautious if they were stretching themselves as £420k is a big price for a FTB (well it is here in S Wales).

QTpie wrote:

To be perfectly honest I am not convinced that - even if we had agreed the £380k - whether they still would have gone through with it: some people are never happy and just cannot commit...

I think any FTB is thinking twice of committing in this market. I don't think the market has bottomed out at all. Major job losses being announced virtually daily It's not so bad when you are already on the market as given the price rises in past years most people have decent equity in their homes.

QTpie wrote:

(now I am going to find out that the buyer posts here too... :rolleyes: )
QT

That would be so funny if there was a thread encouraging them to revise their offer!:D