Ok, so who else has been "gazundered"?

moggylover

QTPie wrote: »

Which is probably why we are in this recession in the first place... principles seem to have very little to do with modern day life, but unfortunately some of us have them and that is the way we behave.



Since we don't have to sell, I think that we would be stupid to sell now... there is no point in accepting "lose" or "lose-lose" if we don't have to.

We will be forced to wait it out - one way or another - like most other people who don't have to sell (that have a brain). The number of houses available to buy will continue to fall and be made up of virtually only reposessions and other emergency sales...



I think that we will have to - we have little other choice. I am not bothered about prices recovering (I really don't need/want to sell at the top of the market), I just want to be able to afford what I want to buy. That would require me being able to buy in the same market that I sell: there needs to be some more market equalibrium/stability for that. It is pointless us selling until then.

QT

I think the thing is that the houses you want that are still on at 2007 prices are not going to get that whether they want it or not. Around here there are still a lot of people who appear to have their heads in the sand but they are not even getting viewings.

Instead of turning down offers, I think it would be just as good an idea to view the houses you like, and approach the owners with the same sort of year prices as you are getting, and tbh - that could well be 2004 ones, but I suspect it may be as little as 2001 ones before all this is over.

Alternatively, since the value IS going to drop further, sell now and go into rented, and then when all the other prices come down you will be in a very good position to go in with an offer as a cash buyer. It will not only be repos and urgent sales that happen: people have lives that they need to go on with despite a recession and there are many reasons why some will decide that it is time to move.

Good luck. I am trying to sell two houses at the moment (one an inheritance) and there are not even that may viewers around at the moment: but I do have a second viewing on one on Saturday so have almost everything crossed:o


BTW: I do agree that is totally unethical to gazunder - and I admit my principles might have been as quick to react as yours were - but reality is that the prices are not going to get any better and that is for everyone and human nature being the unpleasant thing that it is there are going to be people who will act as your buyers did. Quite a lot of them I am afraid.

domcastro

I personally think gazundering is only ok if the valuation comes back less than the purchase price. For example, I was dreading my valuation coming back less because I would have had to go back to the sellers - but it came back ok. phew would have hated to gazunder

domcastro

SavingSteve wrote: »

I'm sorry but I take extreme offence at this comment. Why have you convinced yourself that only a FTB would gazunder? That is a shocking attitude to have.

Anyone can and will gazunder, to attempt to tarnish FTBs as 'culprits' is bang out of order IMO

Extreme offence?

botchjob

SavingSteve wrote: »

I'm sorry but I take extreme offence at this comment. Why have you convinced yourself that only a FTB would gazunder? That is a shocking attitude to have.

Anyone can and will gazunder, to attempt to tarnish FTBs as 'culprits' is bang out of order IMO

Touchy touchy.

While it’s obviously true that anyone can gazunder, it’s only FTBs (or those without property to sell – quite a rare thing) who can do so without impunity. Anyone in a chain with a buyer lined up for their place risks wrecking the chain and going back to square one if they try to gazunder the place they want to buy. So they’re less likely to play hard ball. FTBs can be more cavalier.

socrates

"All is fair in love and war"

and the war is on its way.....

besonders1

I fully sympathize with you and think that both gazundering / gazumping should be banned. It does make anyone angry that it is unjust but at the end of the day if you were selling you would want the highest price, if you were buying you would want the lowest price - no mercy. The question you need to ask is if you rejected the deal would you get a better offer later in todays market? A lot of sellers on here say that if a buyer did this to them they would tell the buyer to get lost but then they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, especially if the next offer they receive is 20K less than the gazundering buyer. I think you would be very lucky to get anything near 2007 prices in todays market so I wouldn't take the risk of rejecting the offer.

QTPie

botchjob wrote: »

Touchy touchy.

While it’s obviously true that anyone can gazunder, it’s only FTBs (or those without property to sell – quite a rare thing) who can do so without impunity. Anyone in a chain with a buyer lined up for their place risks wrecking the chain and going back to square one if they try to gazunder the place they want to buy. So they’re less likely to play hard ball. FTBs can be more cavalier.

Thank you (and to the other posters who can't understand the "extreme offence" either) what a complete over-reaction... One would have thought that I had insulted the poster's Grandmother or something. Don't understand that at all.

I certainly didn't say that FTB would be the ONLY people who would gazunder, but they are in a position to be a lot more cavalier (as botchjob says). They have nothing to loose, they are "perfect buyers" and so mor elikely to do it.

I certainly didn't say that ALL FTBs would do it, BUT if you do have a FTB (as in cash/mortgage/no-chain buyer) then be prepared... I think that being aware that they MIGHT gazunder (and thinking about what you would accept if they do).

To be honest being gazundered caught us COMPLETELY by surprise (as I have said, I wouldn't do it to others...) and we were incredibly angry at the time and were on holiday. So our reaction (of "we will not negotiate on the original price - take it or leave it") was definitely a knee-jerk reaction. We may well have been wiser to negotiate on it, I am still not convinced. What I am saying is that people should perhaps be aware that the situation might happen (even if there is no chain to pass a gazunder up) and think about how they would proceed if it happens - would they accept less and, if so, how much less. It is not the sort of decision that you want to make in a few hours, on a ski slope, when you have been taken completely by surprise!

Personally I think that the buyers got cold feet and may have pulled out anyway. They had a 10% deposit and 90% mortgage and wanted to complete by 5th Feb because that was when their mortgage offer ran out (they were worried that they wouldn't get another mortgage offer). They pulled out before the valuation - so it wasn't that the mortgage company had said that the house was worth less than the offer.

Rightly or wrongly I think that buying a house is a VERY serious decision that people should not enter into lightly: everything should be thought through and considered BEFORE an offer is made... The Scottish system is better, since when an offer is accepted, it is binding.

QT

QTPie

besonders1 wrote: »

I fully sympathize with you and think that both gazundering / gazumping should be banned. It does make anyone angry that it is unjust but at the end of the day if you were selling you would want the highest price, if you were buying you would want the lowest price - no mercy. The question you need to ask is if you rejected the deal would you get a better offer later in todays market? A lot of sellers on here say that if a buyer did this to them they would tell the buyer to get lost but then they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, especially if the next offer they receive is 20K less than the gazundering buyer. I think you would be very lucky to get anything near 2007 prices in todays market so I wouldn't take the risk of rejecting the offer.

Oh I agree - everyone wants the highest/lowest price, but a like has to be drawn. You do your research, you think through the situation, you make your offer, then you stick to it. Especially if the sale is going through quickly: there really isn't an excuse. Maybe if a house sale is going through in 3/6/12 months, then it is more understandable.

As far as "cutting my nose of to spite my face", possibly... I just don't know, neither does anyone else. Property market is pure speculation. I don't want to make a huge profit, I just want to be able to afford to go the next rung up the property ladder: that just doesn't look possilble - even with being in a position to add £200k to our mortgage :eek: .

As I have said previously, I don't want to sell at 2007 prices - selling at 2004 prices would make me incredibly happy if I could buy at 2004 prices (at 2004 prices that £200k extra mortgage would go a LOOONG way). What I cannot afford to do is sell at early 2004 prices and buy at late 2007 prices - £200k just doesn't dent it...

I am just not seeing the movement in the prices on the next rung of the ladder to give me confidence that this will happen. Because we are looking at "larger family homes", these are either being kept at silly prices by the vendors or are being withdrawn from the market (their owners thinking "we will just hang onto it for another 5+ years - no desperate need to move" before they downsize). Maybe, in my area, the shortage of larger family homes (and because many of those owners are at the top of their ladder) supports that the prices on those will not drop...

Looking at house prices... Our house was under offer at early 2006 prices (buyers dropped their offer to 2004 prices). Whereas "larger family houses" are pricing like that there hasn't been any drop in the housing market (i.e. late 2007 prices and then some extra on top).

We wont loose out. If we can't sell in a market that we can also buy, then we just wont.

Estate agents around here are unwilling to negotiate offers with people who are not in a position to move (i.e. FTB or at least "under offer" ).

QT

spuds_2

I sympathise too - I cannot see a situation when I would be prepared to gazunder someone. Renegotiation if the survey comes back with lots of problems or if the valuation is lower than expected is different. Also, it's all relative - if they were asking you to drop another 5 or even 10k you may have considered it. To ask for another £40k off is a substantial amount of money.

There is no point sellling at a very reduced price if you cannot get the house you want. You could rent, but risk a long wait until the right house comes up or you find a desparate seller who will drop their price.

I don't think this is just FTB's though, it is something that any cash or no-chain buyer can do. When house prices are going up and take 6 months to go through, you don't ask for 5% more do you? A deal is a deal, I reckon. Good luck with the next buyers.

chedburgh

I have to say i didn't see any sellers complaining about the morals or ethics of gazumping while prices increased... This is just the otherside of that coin...