Starbucks Closures. 300 Stores, 6700 Jobs - 2/3rds in the US. Business Down 69%

fc123

djm1972 wrote: »

To be honest, I only really go to Subway for the carbs (bread) - no hydrogenated fats in Subway bread anymore - and the vegetables - I have so much salad and veg they have trouble closing the sandwich sometimes.

I couldn't care less what's in the meat, or to be honest how it's been produced. I think it's more cruel to breed a free range chicken and then kill it than to have one stuffed up in a coop that actually wants to die. Unless someone can prove to me without corporate sensationalism and beyond reasonable doubt that there is something in there my system can't process I'll carry on going!

I give up :rolleyes:

I will stick to my day job from now on (the one that makes pointless, useless consumer goods) as it's more satisfying.......

Cleaver

djm1972 wrote: »

I couldn't care less what's in the meat, or to be honest how it's been produced. I think it's more cruel to breed a free range chicken and then kill it than to have one stuffed up in a coop that actually wants to die. Unless someone can prove to me without corporate sensationalism and beyond reasonable doubt that there is something in there my system can't process I'll carry on going!

It makes me feel quite sad that you feel that way.

You're Subman's branded, targetted, demongraphic, marketed audience though (i.e. a thick consumer that likes to be 'branded to'), so the two of you go well together.

djm1972

Cleaver wrote: »

It makes me feel quite sad that you feel that way.

Why does it make you sad? There are a million and one other people like me out there. What, really, is wrong with it?

Cleaver

djm1972 wrote: »

Why does it make you sad? There are a million and one other people like me out there. What, really, is wrong with it?

I've just read my last post and realised how preachy and vitriolic I cam across to someone who is, essentially, posting about buying a sandwich. Apologies for that.

Why does it make me sad? You basically stated that you don't care about the welfare of the animal you are eating as long as it tastes okay. You can see why that makes me a bit sad can't you?

zarazara

poor chicken.

djm1972

Cleaver wrote: »

I've just read my last post and realised how preachy and vitriolic I cam across to someone who is, essentially, posting about buying a sandwich. Apologies for that.

Why does it make me sad? You basically stated that you don't care about the welfare of the animal you are eating as long as it tastes okay. You can see why that makes me a bit sad can't you?

oh gosh no worries.

Re: the welfare, it's a difficult one, complicated significantly by our position at the top of the food chain as a result of our very well developed intelligence, which I believe is what leads to conciousness.

I look at how other animals lower down the food chain treat the animals they they in turn feed on, and when you do this, you see brutality that perhaps isn't even on a scale of how we treat battery chickens, for example. I'm not convinced that anything below chimpanzee has a "sense of self" of anything approaching the level that we do, but I feel that many people translate our own experience of life to those of other animals - but if you extrapolate that you could say the same about bacteria and amoeba, yet I don't see any vegetarians refraining from washing their hands to avoid the unnecessary suffering of them.

It should also be noted that there are multiple food chains in existence. You only need to read up on the very sad reports of people who have ended up in lion enclosures at the zoo to appreciate how much respect a hungry lion has for a juicy human!

I guess that's heading really off-topic for this thread though...!

Cleaver

djm1972 wrote: »

oh gosh no worries.

I like you, despite your eating habits.

djm1972 wrote: »

Re: the welfare, it's a difficult one, complicated significantly by our position at the top of the food chain as a result of our very well developed intelligence, which I believe is what leads to conciousness.

I look at how other animals lower down the food chain treat the animals they they in turn feed on, and when you do this, you see brutality that perhaps isn't even on a scale of how we treat battery chickens, for example. I'm not convinced that anything below chimpanzee has a "sense of self" of anything approaching the level that we do, but I feel that many people translate our own experience of life to those of other animals - but if you extrapolate that you could say the same about bacteria and amoeba, yet I don't see any vegetarians refraining from washing their hands to avoid the unnecessary suffering of them.

It should also be noted that there are multiple food chains in existence. You only need to read up on the very sad reports of people who have ended up in lion enclosures at the zoo to appreciate how much respect a hungry lion has for a juicy human!

I guess that's heading really off-topic for this thread though...!

And you're definately proving youself as not Subway's target demographic either.

I agree, it's a complicated one. But (and I know this will come across as very w*nky) I think that our place at the top of the food chain comes with some responsibilities. I am, reluctantly, in agreement with Jamie "my tounge is just far to big for my mouth and all my friends on TV are rented from an agency" Oliver in that there is no need to have chickens for £2.50 and that paying £6 for a chicken that's a had a pretty decent life is no real hardship.

Going back to the Subway side of thing, I just have a romantic notion for the local business I guess. I like the unexpected, I like being surprised by something different, I like character and I like to know what I'm eating. I think Davensave summed it up really nicely when he said when settle for mediocrity. Of course there is a place for Subway somewhere on the marketplace, I just find it a bit depressing how much the British public seem to flock to the place.

Can I also just add how nice it is to actually have a debate with someone who I disagree with but then comes back with an intelligently crafted response, which has happened lots on this thread. I don't mean by that that my posts are somehow above other people's (have you seen my jokes? Quite the opposite.) but it's really nice when you are actually challenged to think about another point of view, rather than just being insulted (which is exactly what I did to you a couple of posts ago. Ahem).

fc123

Now you are making me look bad Cleaver...cos I gave up ;-) but the brain is wearing out now.
It's hard not to sound preachy with these topics.

I loved the Submans post though.......an insight into 'corporate man'.

zarazara

poor chicken.

Cleaver

zarazara wrote: »

poor chicken.

Are you drunk?