Starbucks Closures. 300 Stores, 6700 Jobs - 2/3rds in the US. Business Down 69%

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

djm1972 wrote: »

As someone who frequents both Subway and Starbucks (or Costa) on an almost daily basis, let me put the other side of the argument, as it rarely gets a look in on these sort of threads.

Firstly Subway. Yes, their meats are processed, but no more so than the meats you buy from Tesco to make sandwiches at home. There is nothing wrong with their salad and vegetable accompaniments; and if you ask they will really load up your sandwich - lots of chillis and pickled gherkins will do more for your system than any amount of Actimel. The logistics (procuring, storage) and costs of providing a similar variation and quantity of vegetables in your diet without somewhere like Subway are prohibitive. Yes - they are. Do you do it? Well try it then and report back.

Very similar arguments re Starbucks, but from a throttling rather than excess point of view. OK, so you say £2.50 is a lot for a coffee; but caffeine in controlled amounts has its place in a healthy diet / metabolism - but not too much of it. Yes, you can buy espresso machines and re-create the "Starbucks Experience" at home; but a) you've got to buy the machine, and then you run the risk of having way too many each day because the financial throttle of Starbucks isn't there. So my daily latte is a pick me up; a great source of calcium, and a significant and healthy component of my daily calorie intake.

That's less than a fiver a day I spend on healthy calories and a significant proportion of my daily nutritional needs (on top of that I have just one other main meal, and then toast if feeling a little peckish later in the evening). How many people do you see spending more than that every day in McDonalds (way too heavy on bad calories, and virtually no veg) or even Boots on a "Healthy Living Meal Deal" (malnourishment)?

I think I'll stick to the greasy spoons thanks.

fc123

djm1972 wrote: »

It's the consistency and predictability of their product that the big chains pay attention to that is part of what has got them where they are.

And that is the secret of their success.

As I have traded in 3 different tourist areas for 2 decades (but as a local store for local people which, just by the by, happened to be interesting to visitors) I see the fear of anything unknown in people.

We are often asked to recommend eating places...as they are just too scared of trying something new.
Hey, it may be rubbish, but it could also be fantastic....but they won't take the risk. Consequently, they miss out on some amazing, home cooked food as they herd into Bella Italia (for a 3663 ready meal full of E no's) or Pizza Express. They prefer to go with the safe and familiar.


We have a lot of visitors who wander in, then say in a surprised tone 'Gosh, this is a really nice shop, we don't have shops like this in Milton Keynes etc''.
The surprise is that an individual is capable of running something different to chains but is just as accessable, price wise and can trade to a similar standard.
They don't know what an independent shop is like. Their town may have a few but they trade in a more casual way to keep costs as low as possible.

All my life there have been the big boys, the not so big, the bland and everything else. There was always room for all of us.

If you were a bit $hi7 at running your shop, you would close eventually anyway.
Now, it's the final effects of the shift in operating margins that are killing them all off....many are not closing because they are rubbish.....they just don't make the margin to trade cheek by jowl with the chains.....just because they are small.....but the rents are the same for an Indie retailer and a Starbucks. Spot the difference.


Over the next few years, as the niche and independent traders reduce further, customers will, one day, just notice the lack of choice.....and the resulting increases in prices (or reduction in quality to maintain price points)
then moan about 'everyfing the same now'days innit''.

DJM1972; Try a bit of Felicity Lawrence. She has 2 books out. 'Not on the label' is the intro. The 2nd is more political and concentrates on agri business. If you think the banks are bad....the big food guys are worse. They are playing with peoples existences and bodies.
Shocked me when I read it.

fc123

mower5 wrote: »

Goodluck with your business plans fc123.
I agree Subways are a sign of decay on the high street, cheap and nasty food, aimed at drunks and skint children, salt, sugar, saturated fat. I just hope the decent independant shops can get though the downturn.

Thanks ....I am bursting with exciting things that have happened BUT I can't talk about them on a forum just yet .....and I really want to brag too (this being a parallel land where one can get away with totally, selfish ME chat.;) )

Just got to go through the scary, unknown thing that is contrary to the way we usually conduct ourselves, business wise.

So, I can be positive whilst talking about the rubbish stuff.....cos I have.....aaaagh...can't say...but it's Good.

fc123

mower5 wrote: »

Goodluck with your business plans fc123.
I agree Subways are a sign of decay on the high street, cheap and nasty food, aimed at drunks and skint children, salt, sugar, saturated fat. I just hope the decent independant shops can get though the downturn.

It's the info that Lynzpower posted...processed in China, vacuum packed or frozen and shipped over. I am shocked.

These guys block a pedestrianised, historical lane every day with a gigantic lorry, delivering boxes of processed food to all the chains in our tiny area.
The ones that look like an authentic French bistro are the worst offenders. Even the scarmbled egg comes in a sachet.

3663 First for Foodservice is the UK’s leading foodservice company with sales of over £1 billion a year.

We deliver quality ingredients, finished products and equipment to the catering industry.

When the rules about ingredients have to apear on menus, let's see how people react. They have no idea.
Dishy Gordon read out the ingredients of a lamb shank in this show. If you order lamb shank in a chain, you are likely to be fed the type shown in the show.
http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=ramsays-great-british-nightmare#popover

mower5

Ref to post 135

Good for you, i love the excitment of a new venture/plan/contract. Thats the great thing about self-employment, it's all your own baby. I could never imagine working for an employer full-time, too boring and not edgy at all.

fc123

Which people? Oh, the post has disapeared.

fc123

mower5 wrote: »

Ref to post 135

Good for you, i love the excitment of a new venture/plan/contract. Thats the great thing about self-employment, it's all your own baby. I could never imagine working for an employer full-time, too boring and not edgy at all.

Coping with the edginess is a bit hard sometimes......haven't had time to swim it off recently, and I can feel the stress brewing.
Last night, I had insomnia.....haven't ever had that ever.....zonk out in the 1st 10 mins usually.

djm1972

fc123 wrote: »

Which people? Oh, the post has disapeared.

I'll come back tomorrow after less beer!

I just feel annoyed that so many people feel that it's "cool" or "trendy" to be seen to bash Starbucks/Subway/McDondalds/whoever. Yet all 3 are EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES and you do not achieve that success with doing something right - providing something people want - and AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

As this thread demonstrates, the unresearched hostility towards them is extreme, so it is no wonder that people who go out to try and find ill about these companies are able to do so.

sinderella_2

Good luck fc123
I am excited for you; a new venture - sounds great! Let us know more when you can.

djm72 I agree that the big chains provide consistency and that is the selling point - people love to know what they are getting - but the fact remains that multi nationals are not concerned about healthy or wholesome products - but then I suppose that plenty of independents are equally as bad - it's just that they have less of a reach and fewer customers.

fc123

djm1972 wrote: »

I'll come back tomorrow after less beer!

I just feel annoyed that so many people feel that it's "cool" or "trendy" to be seen to bash Starbucks/Subway/McDondalds/whoever. Yet all 3 are EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL MULTI-NATIONAL COMPANIES and you do not achieve that success with doing something right - providing something people want - and AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

As this thread demonstrates, the unresearched hostility towards them is extreme, so it is no wonder that people who go out to try and find ill about these companies are able to do so.

My hostility IS researched as I was the archetypal cardboard cup holding, running around, yummy mummy for a time.

It cost £30 pacm and ended up supporting an industry that made my own trading costs unviable.
Hindsight is a funny thing.
And I lost a stone. Giving up whippy, dippy, flippy soya, mucky chino is very slimming as well as money saving.

And F Lawrence is well worth a read..........I wasn't being Mrs Know all.....I just hijacked PN's thread for personal therapy.....and then everyone left it.:o