AOL & TSB 10 Year Illegal Electronic Transaction

duceuk

Hi,


I am new to this website and would like some advice or clarification on a 10+ year old problem.


I am now on the other side of the debt tunnel and have a question regarding a long-term problem with AOL and Lloyds TSB electronic payments.
Over 10 years ago probably 15 years is closer to the mark, I had a commodore Amiga 500 PC. Eager to get on the Internet with my new 56k modem I put in the AOL free trial CD and there started my saga.

I had already signed up with BT Internet but had to await by post my account details and so I thought I would get on the net free there and then with AOL via the free one month trial cd, and then cancel before the free term ended.

Cutting a long story short, I tried to cancel the payment taken from my Lloyds Debit Card, but the payments still came out at around £4.99. Until last July 1998 some ten to fifteen years worth of payments. AOL still kept on taking out this money without my consent and I only used the AOL account for one weekend in all that time as I did not like the service once tried (it was not the real internet)

So this account has never been used or logged into for 15 years, and this transaction was part of a direct debit account that paid all our bills, this AOL payment often sent us into overdrawn many times as a knock on effect causing us to get into debt and owing lots of money through bounced debits and spiralling charges.

I asked the bank many times over the years to cancel, they said they can’t and was asked to contact AOL. I did and never got a reply from my letters. I was in the debt consciousness of powerlessness in those days and so put up with all this. Now we again are overdrawn through this one payment as we stopped all transactions from this account leaving it dormant. This AOL payment sent this account into overdrawn and now the bank is chasing me for the monies.

I wrote the bank telling them I think this is an illegal transaction as the debit card used to create this payment was over 15 years old, and how can a payment be taken off a card that does not exist? After 15 years of trying to cancel the payment once I brought up this view, the payments stopped on July 98 with no reason, It was years since I contacted AOL again so I know it must have been Lloyds who cancelled it, yet they maintain they have no records or cannot find out who cancelled it from there records, they recently reported this to me from an investigation and I have the letter stating that, but I know the payments only stopped when I raised this illegal transaction point to them.

This means they could have stopped it 15 years ago and I stated that I would claim back all my charges, and the AOL payments taken from the account, as I did not ever use the AOL account. So all the charges relating to bounced transaction would not have occurred if this payment was not being taken out without my consent.

The bank have offered to give me back the current charges created by the interest run up from the AOL payments from the last month or two only as these are clearly seen the reason the account is over the agreed Overdraft limit.
But I am not satisfied with that, I have the 4-page letter on file I sent to the bank detailing the history and I wanted some feedback if this was worth pursuing.

I believe the transaction is illegal, as the debit card is over 15 years old; this was the card and number used to register from the aol cd on the net. If I try to use a number from an old card it is not possible is it, also every year I have to update my details on the net linking any accounts I have with the new debit cards issued so how can a company like AOL still take funds from an out of date card?
The bank says that the payments are linked to this 15-year-old card.

The bank always maintained they could not stop the payments, I asked hundreds of times over the years, but when I suggested the card payment was illegal that’s when the payments stopped, I believe the bank stopped them, and so I am viewing this as they owe me for all the charges imposed from lots of bounced transactions from many direct debits related to this one account which was used to pay almost all our bills and mortgage etc.

I would like to hear any views from those more knowledgeable on these matters, as I don’t believe the banks words relating to this matter.

I am not yet dealing with AOL side of things yet, but I intend to, but first I want to sort this out, as I believe this is unfair and a rather unusual case.

The bank today informed me they would be taking action to recover the charges in 10 days time. I can accept an offer to wipe the current charges (but not the agreed overdraft) but I do not know if that would in effect stop me claiming the full charges incurred through the aol transactions I did not authorise from the renewed debit card 1 year after signing up.

In my view I cannot do anything about this from the 1st year the card was active as I guess I must have agreed to terms for that period. But I did not expect or was understanding this card could be charged once that card expired. As I always have to update new details on all other transactions so in my view AOL and TSB have been charging me from details given on a debit card that expired over ten years ago as automatic payments I did not authorise, and tried to cancel numerous times without any satisfaction

I would love to hear some views from those more informed in this area
I tried to PM to the team but have not received any replies so as I am running out of time I posted this here hoping it is the right place for such an enquiry

This is not about just claiming charges, as I believe it is this aol trasaction responsible for a knock on effect sending the account overdrawn many many times over ten years plus from a card that expired after the 1st year of payments I still tried to cancel at both aol and the bank, and the aol account has never been accessed or logged into apart from a weekend during the free month trial.

Thank you in advance
Kindest regards
Roy
[FONT=&quot]AKA - Duce[/FONT]

militantconsumer

I think you are going to struggle to claim anything back from more than 6 years ago whatever the rights and wrongs of the case due to the so-called Statutes of Limitation.

LALON1983

You really should have been complaining to AOL over the years andnot the bank.

If you cancelled with AOL and have proof of that like a cancellation reference - you might get 6 months worth of charges back (180days)

In aol current terms and conditons - it states:

4. Inactive Status
4.1 In addition to the termination rights that we have under this Agreement, we reserve the right to deactivate your AOL Web Services Account if it has been inactive for more than a consecutive period of 90 days or more.

If they did not stop charging they may be in breache of the contract. ( i'm not sure)

There another term in the contract - which states you only have 180days to dispute charges - then you waive any chance to a refund. CISAS would dmostly agree if you did not cancel

asharon

To put up with them taking the money for so long why did you not just phone them up and cancel it ?

You never really mention cancelling with AOL ? You took out the free trial and then...you don't mention that you cancelled you only go on to say you asked the bank to stop it. If you didn't cancel it with AOL then what would you expect a company to do ? If you did and you sent a letter did you send it recorded delivery ? Do you still have the proof of postage ?

I'm sorry but this does not come under the heading of being blind because of debt because that is when you cannot face the charges and cannot afford them. Phoning up a company that month after month takes money that you can save is different.

lindos90

Hi, Ive seen a recent thread about the same thing, that may give you some help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1363687&highlight=aol+debit+card+transaction


It seems that the problem is that this type of payment can not be cancelled by the bank or account holder, but only by the payee, and AOL dont appear to like doing this!

In your case, I dont know why the payment stopped, unless AOL did do it, and you assume it was your bank?

Hope you find some help in the replies in the other thread, and hopefully get some money back (although you will need to prove somehow that you didnt use the service after the months trial)

duceuk

militantconsumer wrote: »

I think you are going to struggle to claim anything back from more than 6 years ago whatever the rights and wrongs of the case due to the so-called Statutes of Limitation.

I would agree with that view myself, and I have come across this in my seeking, I am seeking a way to flip my emotions regarding this saga, something that when I think about it makes me feel great.

I already am feeling great now because at least the payments have stopped, a small miracle in its self.

Thank you
Duce

duceuk

LALON1983 wrote: »

You really should have been complaining to AOL over the years andnot the bank.

If you cancelled with AOL and have proof of that like a cancellation reference - you might get 6 months worth of charges back (180days)

In aol current terms and conditons - it states:

4. Inactive Status
4.1 In addition to the termination rights that we have under this Agreement, we reserve the right to deactivate your AOL Web Services Account if it has been inactive for more than a consecutive period of 90 days or more.

If they did not stop charging they may be in breache of the contract. ( i'm not sure)

There another term in the contract - which states you only have 180days to dispute charges - then you waive any chance to a refund. CISAS would dmostly agree if you did not cancel

Hi,

Yes that was my first port of call, I sent 3 or four letters without any feedback or contact what so ever. So I gave up with them for a long time.

Ignorant of the way the transaction works I though I could just cancel the payments from the card. By the months end I uninstalled the AOL CD from the computer and threw away the disk in the same week I installed it as by then, within the free time trial, I had my BT Inet details. I had no record of account numbers or nothing relating to it. When the payments came out at the end of the month I tried to cancel my card, then I got the news I could not.

So I waited a a few months as the card would expire and like all other payments from a card I thought I would have opportunity to opt out of the transactions and they would contact me saying they could not take the funds, then in my way of thinking back then, I could talk to the “compartment of AOL) dealing with the payments.

I never cancelled with AOL, I never expected for them to take out the funds after the trial (to keen to get up and running in those days)

With reference to the Inactive Status : 4.1 terms,
This is what my feelings say should have happened, I know for a fact that account was never accessed by me as the dial up was uninstalled from AOL and replaced within the week a connection to BT Internet. So I would expect that given the time span of no activity of the account.
Kindest Regards
Duce

duceuk

asharon wrote: »

To put up with them taking the money for so long why did you not just phone them up and cancel it ?

You never really mention cancelling with AOL ? You took out the free trial and then...you don't mention that you cancelled you only go on to say you asked the bank to stop it. If you didn't cancel it with AOL then what would you expect a company to do ? If you did and you sent a letter did you send it recorded delivery ? Do you still have the proof of postage ?

I'm sorry but this does not come under the heading of being blind because of debt because that is when you cannot face the charges and cannot afford them. Phoning up a company that month after month takes money that you can save is different.

Hi Thanks for this view,
The saga was well timed over a span of bad luck and financial hardship at the time, Someone gave me the address to write them so I did that,

I never cancelled the AOL due to the reasons given in last reply,
But I also never accessed the account apart from maybe the first week I installed the cd, since then the account has never been active or accessed in any way.

I expected to be given opportunity after a year to either carry on or drop out, My card used to create this transaction became expired within a few months of signing up, as this transaction was created using the cards details, I expect even now that payments relating to that card cannot continue if the card has expired.

If I use pay pal then every year I have to update my card
Same with Amazon, and all the rest too, why not AOL?
I cannot see how this could be possible, and it is just an automated electronic payment.

Does AOL still provide a service for £4.99?
And for dial up as that was what I signed up for and after at least ten years nothing changed with the size of payment so have I been billed for a service that does not exist also? Maybe my expired cards and AOL dial up are partying together in some other dimension perhaps? just kidding as I like to inject humour in this personal topic as I found it helps a lot.

Given my direct experience of expanding consciousness I see it is easy to view the saga with clarity now, but when in lack consciousness you are simply out of phase with logical ideas, cut off from ones creative flows (where all our ideas originate)
So I could not have accessed reason and clarity of vision as to which way to go, that is why one looks to others guidance who are in contact with this and are familiar with positive steps to take.

It took me a long time to learn that from direct experiences, and given what I know now, and the person that was crafted from those experiences and given the choice I would choose to do it all over again as who I am now was well worth the experience.

Right now I am cleaning up my past if you can understand that, the action taken by me then are so distant from the decisions I would and do make now as I have ever expending choices. In a lack consciousness you perceive little to no choice when facing large companies of this nature especially when you were victim of them for so many years.

It was when I learned to look within myself is where my true powers lie, following my own intuition and everyday clearing all thought to allow guidance and viewing all subjects in a beneficial way, a mastering of the emotions is the key I will say.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of my actions does not matter,
What I like to know is what roads are open to me, what can I do now, what opportunities are there from this point forwards.

I already learned what I needed to know then in my past, learned some grate lessons the only way one can, by direct personal experience.
My action now create a new past in my future, can you see that, so my memories of this event will be fond ones as I will have done something I could not once do.
Do something about it now.

Thanks for your views
They are very valuable

Kindest regards
Duce

duceuk

lindos90 wrote: »

Hi, Ive seen a recent thread about the same thing, that may give you some help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1363687&highlight=aol+debit+card+transaction


It seems that the problem is that this type of payment can not be cancelled by the bank or account holder, but only by the payee, and AOL dont appear to like doing this!

In your case, I dont know why the payment stopped, unless AOL did do it, and you assume it was your bank?

Hope you find some help in the replies in the other thread, and hopefully get some money back (although you will need to prove somehow that you didnt use the service after the months trial)

Hi,

Many thank for the link, I had looked and searched around seeking a thread like my own experience but I have little time to respond to the bank.

My experience is exactly that you state, From the last time I tried AOL I’m pretty sure it was the bank, that is my interest and point of focus. It was only when I pointed out the suggestion I thought the payments were illegal taken from an expired debit card of ten years old. That’s when things changed, then I had a meeting to close the whole dormant bank account but by then it was in collection due to charges and interest run up through the AOL payment as nothing else came in or out that account.

Then just suddenly I was told payments from AOL had not been taken since July 98, I found this out over Christmas from talking to the collection people.
So it was news to me, and they never pointed that out in the bank meeting in November while they had the details on the screen while I and my wife were there in the office.

Sounds a bit cloak and dagger really and feels someone is hiding something, so here I am trying to find out more from those others more knowledge able in this field.

Sometime last year, I had a spark of reasoning, and searched out AOL, a brave move for me because I really learned to hate them over the years. I did a search for my account if indeed I had one, I did not know, Typed in my name and address and bingo there I was.

Now for the first time ever I saw some details and then tried to email, I got a form mail so I pasted a longish letter in the box detailing the saga. Left my address, phone number, email address and everything sent that off and waited.

Again just like always nothing replies, that was the last straw for me, and since then never tried again to stop them, these contacts were over a ten year period, not regular as I wasn’t looking at my statements then as they was always bad news, my reasoning was I was getting too much of that everyday so why oh why would one look at how much you had lost again in charges and interest.

Once I was £300 in credit (my wages at the time) I was self employed, putting a cheque in around Thursday of a Easter weekend. I through then direct debits came out at the same time every week or month, but not on bank holidays they take them out earlier than agreed so I woke up Easter Tues over £500 overdrawn through bounced payments. My mortgage company charged me £35, then next day sent me a letter telling me that they would try again next day, I only found that out days later when I got the letter by post and by that time they had tried again so that was another £35 and for my pleasure the bank also charged me £25 each time for both tries just from one transaction. One payment was budget gas, £7 a month, that bounced along with about 20 other DD payments all over this weekend as it was both the end and beginning of the month including two bank holidays and my £300 cheque had not cleared

With that regular experience over the years
You do not want to look at a statement or reason clearly what you can do you just feel so powerless, that leads to depression a withdrawing from action

I am so grateful to be riding the opposite emotions to those now,
And so now I am wanting to know, what I can do from this point forwards

Knowing others experience is very valuable
And so for this I am very grateful to you

Thank you
Kindest Regards
Duce

esmerellda

So AOL havent taken any payments since 1998, how long had they taken payments for before then?

I would send a Subject Access request under the data protection act to the bank for all your information, and possibly also AOL to find out exactly what the situation is.

Do things in writing by snail mail.... always. And keep copies and postage receipts.

Also if you havent already, start off your claim for a refund of overdraft fees.

lindos90

Hang on...they stopped taking the money 11 years ago (1998) and you were paying/trying to get it stopped for 10/15 years prior to that (1983??) am I misunderstanding the dates here?

I didnt think there was an internet 26 years ago!!

Or do you mean your account was set up in 1998 and they took the last payment july last year (2008 not 1998)

No wait a minute, sorry, its me, im getting mixed up...you say in your first post that 10-15 years ago you had a computer and thats when you did the AOL trial, so that would make it 1999-1994...so AOL were charging you for between 1ish and 5 years?

If you can still get your account details from AOL I would screen print it all, I think you will have to be quite specific about dates if you are writing and asking for payments back.

Sorry I misunderstood the dates....im still not sure I understand!