Train Penalty Fares - some facts

omelette451

geordieracer wrote: »

you can buy a ticket from any rail station in the UK for any journey you want to make even if your not travelling from that station so why do people not do this? You can book online and have them delivered normally free so why not do this?

Because unless there is an advantage to doing so (e.g. cheaper fares) people like the flexibility. There have been many occasions when I have left the decision about whether actually to travel until a few minutes before leaving, and if I'd booked in advance I'd have lost the money.

As for having tickets delivered home, that requires booking a week in advance, which for many people is just not practical. The alternative method, picking them up at the station, doesn't solve anything as those people would still need to queue in order to collect them from the machine.

I also suggest that people don't book tickets from Victoria in advance because they think, subconsciously or otherwise, that that's something one does when travelling long distance, rather than on 'short haul' commuter routes. Southern's special advance fares may help to change this attitude, but it remains to be seen just how successful it will be.

In any case, it would be easy to argue that it is the company that needs to change, not passengers. In any 'normal' business a company has to offer wha the customer wants, which in this case is to buy tickets at the station, in order to survive; of course the railways have never really thought of themselves as a business, and therefore continue to make people suffer if they insist on doing the 'wrong' thing.

strawberry9

Any return ticket sold will have the words "out" and "rtn" on them, and would have time of purchase. Quite simply by purchasing a single ticket for the journey home the ticket checker knew immediately that the ticket didnt cover the journey that the passenger had made in the morning!

robt_2

kayaitch wrote: »

I know this thread is strictly speaking about penalty fares but this is closely related. I recently bought my son a 16-25 railcard as he has turned 16.

<snip>

It isn't really - you will probably get a better response if you copy and paste what you have written into a new thread

gner_ex

FARE-COP wrote: »

As an Inspector for many years, I always took the view that if I was on a train and saw someone board and that person sought me out to pay his or her fare, before the train reached the next station stop, I would sell them the ticket that they wanted regardless of the rules. He or she clearly had no intention of not paying in my mind and has made the effort.

If that person had gone and sat down and started work at a lap top or, began reading the paper and I had to seek him out to check for a ticket it is an entirely different matter. In those circumstances the fare was at risk, if I had not made a check. There is a chance that the traveller might not pay and therefore a penalty is justified at the very least.

A very important judgement in an appeal court case back in the 1970s and well before the introduction of penalty fares, determined that opportunist fare evasion is a criminal act.

If you don't pay a fare just because the opportunity to get on a train without having done so presents itself, please be aware of the possible consequences of your actions.

Agree with you entirely. The only point I would make is that (particularly in the London area) many trains are either DOO, or where they do have a guard they _only_ guard and don't seem to do any revenue duties at all (Silverlink/London Overground are the best example here).

On DOO trains, roving PFI's usually board midway through the journey and alight a couple of stops later - hence it is not possible to seek out the guard.

I would only add that if people are suggesting that a ticket office is closed/a machine takes cards only that taking a couple of pictures might be in their interests.

gner_ex

strawberry9 wrote: »

Any return ticket sold will have the words "out" and "rtn" on them, and would have time of purchase. Quite simply by purchasing a single ticket for the journey home the ticket checker knew immediately that the ticket didnt cover the journey that the passenger had made in the morning!

But circumstances could explain this, of course (i.e. having done your journey into town on the return portion of a ticket you had from earlier.

Re examples A, B and C - in my opinion it depends how people got out of the barriers. If the barriers were just open, then it seems reasonable enough to just walk through - I would almost be tempted to say "past consideration is no consideration here".

If someone doubled-up or jumped over however - that would be different in my view. Did the scenario (of a passenger being recognised later in the day) actually occur?

Maybe when ITSO becomes national (flying pig anyone?) we will then have a fairer system for situations where there are long queues/machines out of order - though the next thing of course will be that "there was no power to the oyster machine".