Kids hols during termtime - 10 days max ?

hammy_the_hammer · 29 March 2006 at 6:02PM

Zziggi wrote:

As things currently stand, if a parent asks for permission to take their kid out of school for a holiday and then the Head says "no" - does the parent have a right to ask for a writen explination of why/how the head came to their decision? If so, isn't it opening up a whole area for parents to challenge the head's decision on the basis of the head operating a biased (discriminatory) policy?

Personally i have a bit of a problem with asking the school's permission to do XYZ with my kids - i mean, whose kids are they? By having to seek the schools approval it comes across as if it is the school who is in charge of the kids. I am "only" the parent. i find "informing/telling" the school what's going to happen to be a little too direct (even if in effect this is what you are trying to do). However I am all for negotiating with the school (i.e. on at least an equal footing). The problem is with these discretionary holiday absences is that it is putting the school in a (too) powerful position IMHO.

it hopefully equips them for adult life. there's many things i want to do but restraints are put on them.
when your employer says you can't take 2 weeks off to go on holiday as they have a '13 week shutdown' to take them in ....just go anyway and see what happens

spursman · 30 March 2006 at 12:18AM

once you put your children in school(education is compulsory) "in loco parentis" comes into being so Zzigi yes they are in charge of your children.
yes you do have the right to teach them at home

spursman · 30 March 2006 at 12:20AM

edit education for going to school is compulsory although as stated later you can teach from home or with tutors

Zziggi · 30 March 2006 at 11:03AM

spursman wrote:

once you put your children in school(education is compulsory) "in loco parentis" comes into being so Zzigi yes they are in charge of your children.
yes you do have the right to teach them at home

I'm probably very naive to all this as my kids are still pre-schoolers. Also i was looking into Home Educating them for the first 4-5 years as well so i have started considering schools quite late.

However i understand 'in loco parentis' to mean that the school stands in the role of the parents only while the child is in the care of the school. This does not mean that they can take over the responsability of the child except for the times when the child is with them. Or does 'in loco parentis' extend further?

Sod the parents the school/government knows best - eh? :rolleyes:

princess · 30 March 2006 at 9:03PM

Im confused by this one also zziggi.
Certainly my sons primary school 'pretend' to believe that in loco parentis extends to all aspects of a childs life. I'm sure the head teacher doesnt actually believe this as its clearly not true, but she pushes her luck and most parents dont challenge it. For example those year 6 children who she has good reason to believe will score at 'above the expected level' in the forthcoming sats HAVE TO ATTEND extra booster classes in the evening for one hour three times a week. No option given. My son is lucky/unlucky enough to be in this select group and he is absolutely livid. I cant tell you the upset these classes have caused in my house. Most of these kids have already passed the 11+ and are headed for the grammar school so the quality of their secondary education doesnt hang on these results.....but the reputation of the school does! Ironically enough I have had to sweet talk son into attending because we have to ask the head teacher shortly for one day off in school time for our holiday as husband is a paramedic and not able to get the complete week off in school holiday time. She would certainly say no if we crossed her and didnt make son go to these wretched extra classes! He seriously talks of leaving his SATS papers blank out of spite.

TurnaroundSue · 30 March 2006 at 9:30PM

hammy_the_hammer wrote:

sue this is an example where onlookers can't understand what is going on ...i quote from your above posting about your mitigating circumstances for taking the kids out of school...

"Mr OH is a paramedic and he cannot say when he wants to take his hols - his summer leave this year is the first 2 weeks of September. It means that the only time we can go is June "

his summer leave is in september so you take the kids away in june ?????
if he's a paramedic is he not entitled to ask for time off in the school holidays ?i've posted before that there's a very small minority of people who contractually may not be allowed to take time off in the school holidays eg a decorator who works for a company who does school contracts. i really can't see that being the case for a paramedic. if year after year he isn't allowed to take time off in the school holidays he should contact his trade union or process a formal grievance against the employer. somebody in his paramedic department surely gets the chance to be off for some time during school holidays ??

In answer to your questions Harry - firstly we thought it was better for the children THIS YEAR to take them out in June, rather than the first 2 weeks on a new school term - and we are only taking them out for 6 days, by the way!!

No he is not entitled to take his holiday in school holidays just because he has children. He is on a fixed rota which changes each year and it will be 3 years before he will be able to have his holidays in the summer term. As most people in his profession have children, if they were all entitled to have school holidays, then there would be no ambulances on the road!!!

Not at any time did I say that it was year on year (that has been your assumption), but as previously mentioned it is quite a few years that 'his turn' will come before he is off in the school holidays. He has been off for the last 2 Christmas days, but from this year it will be another 4 years before his holidays come round for him to have christmas again - So no in his profession he cannot demand when he has his holidays - unfortunately people need ambulances 365 days of the year, irrespective of what people are celebrating.

In response to Gregg1, again, not at any time did I say that you called me a bad parent - what I said was that I was made to feel like a bad parent from some of the comments that have been made. I think some of the quotes have been "someone with half a brain could think of a reason to take their kids out of school", "at last, someone with some intelligence"; this quote was given in response to somebody who agreed with not taking kids out of school and that is the reason for my statement. No raw nerve has been hit with me, I still go back to the same arguement that if us parents cannot take their kids out of school then neither should the school be doing it - and, as previously suggested, I am not taking my kids out JUST because the school is doing it - for the record, I am a parent of high intelligence who does not play these school yard games!!

princess · 30 March 2006 at 9:30PM

'i really can't see that being the case for a paramedic. if year after year he isn't allowed to take time off in the school holidays he should contact his trade union or process a formal grievance against the employer.'

my husband is also a paramedic.
one year in four he would be able to take his main holiday in the school holidays.
our son is also an absolute star academically and socially. i have no qualms about taking him out of school for a week or so every couple of years. The time that we have together is much more valuable than the extra time at school would be. I dont expect teaching staff to provide him with work (tho they can if they want to) or make any efforts to 'catch him up' as quite honestly it isnt needed and if it is I do it. I have always felt like I home educate him.....but that he goes to school as well!! I feel tho that more and more the balance of power seems to be moving away from parents and towards school which lots of parents (good parents) find really irksome. And they vote with their feet. 20 years ago i had never come across anyone who home educated - now I know dozens.

princess · 30 March 2006 at 9:32PM

oops i see turnaround sue has already made a case for paramedics! well said sue:)

hammy_the_hammer · 30 March 2006 at 10:00PM

i'll play ball then. as a paramedic your roster pattern has your annual leave decided by the bosses then. you are told exactly what weeks you take off ? there's no input from you as a paramedic what period of time you have to take and when? how many are on a roster ? you're young and single and forced to take school holidays while family people get told that their summer leave is in september ?

Spendless · 30 March 2006 at 10:15PM

Someone has recently mentioned to me that they don't like to take the children abroad during july/august as they feel it is too hot. The only other 2 week hols we get here are easter (felt it was too early, esp if Easter falls in March like last year)) and Dec (too late, /not always poss to get time off depending on jobs). What they said is if either the May or Oct half-terms were 2 weeks long they would go then. Neighbouring counties from us do get 2 weeks in may and a week less in summer.