Break in at rented property - who pays for entrance damage?

Bigun28

Just as a matter of interest, as the landlord, I have already had the window replaced on the property. But someone recently did raise the point to me as to who was responsible for costs, and hence I raised the point here to clarify for myself.

Another interesting point that seems to have arisen here with some of the discussions is with regards to the issue of if the tenant can be liable to a break in 'repairs' when they smash a window to get in after forgetting their keys. At another property I rent out I did have such a tenant who decided the kick out the cat flap from the back door and then cut a large hole in the bottom panel so that he could climb in to get his spare keys.

I just happened to be in the area a few weeks later and attended the property with my agents for a mid term inspection and noticed this bin liner (yes, really secure!!) taped up over the hole. When I asked about it, his wife who was there at the time told me what had happened and said that the would fix it. However, when we put it on the inspection report and sent a copy to them, the husband saw it and tried to claim that it was because of a break in at the property and wanted me as the landlord to pay for the damage, and for some items that were apparently 'stolen' as a result.

Needless to say I didn't, and 6 months later when they left, the hole was still there, so we had it repaired with some of his deposit.

socrates

Randal wrote: »

Another interesting point that seems to have arisen here with some of the discussions is with regards to the issue of if the tenant can be liable to a break in 'repairs' when they smash a window to get in after forgetting their keys. At another property I rent out I did have such a tenant who decided the kick out the cat flap from the back door and then cut a large hole in the bottom panel so that he could climb in to get his spare keys.

I just happened to be in the area a few weeks later and attended the property with my agents for a mid term inspection and noticed this bin liner (yes, really secure!!) taped up over the hole. When I asked about it, his wife who was there at the time told me what had happened and said that the would fix it. However, when we put it on the inspection report and sent a copy to them, the husband saw it and tried to claim that it was because of a break in at the property and wanted me as the landlord to pay for the damage, and for some items that were apparently 'stolen' as a result.

Needless to say I didn't, and 6 months later when they left, the hole was still there, so we had it repaired with some of his deposit.

Be very careful - after what you have just typed - there are some on here that might send us both to the gallows.

Flower08

socrates wrote: »

However I am sure there are some people on these boards who just look for any thread with a LL in to disagree with them.

No just people who know their rights.

LLs are responsible for buildings insurance and keeping the building in good order.

Tenants are responsible for contents.

Simple fact.

I am guessing your tenants didnt know their rights, i know if i was in their position i would not give you a penny.

socrates

I give up on this thread!

I suspected they had broken the panel to gain entry having forgotten their keys - the fact that they would not get a crime reference number in my mind confirmed things.

The fact that they agreed to pay without any fuss also told me that something was not right.

If you look at my original answer to the OP - my advice was pay for the damage yourself or claim from the insurance.

Tibbledom

socrates wrote: »

I give up on this thread!

Can I suggest the 1911 census thread.

It may provide you with the means to absolutely confirm you are a relation of Peter Rachman.

paintpot

If a tenant or one of their visitors breaks a window it is the tenant's repsonsibility to pay.

If an outsider i.e. somone unknown to the tenant breaks a window e.g in a burglary then it is the landlord's responsibility and they can either pay out or claim on the insurance but socrates is correct in that you need a crime number to claim on the insurance.

Proving that a tenant is responsible for breaking glass is always the difficult part as with any issue like the cause of blocked drains etc and proof is required if the landlord wants to pass the cost onto the tenant.

I have paid for a patio door that blew off it's hinges
A window put through by youths late at night and emergency boarding
A window shot by an air rifle
A smashed window caused by god knows what but again vandalism I would suspect

At no point have I ever had cause to suspect the tenant. Only one was put through the insurance company and I did need a crime reference number.

DawnW

I am a LL (so not out to diss LLs generally), and agree with the majority of posters on here that this repair would be the LL's responsibility and should be an insured risk. If you have a suspicious mind it might be worth telling tenants at the outset that you have spare keys and to contact you should they lock themselves out? I have done this, and on one occasion my tenants did get in touch to be let in.

jacnorm

I live in private rented accomodation and I could never imagine my LL even asking this question. I am pleased I am not your tenant.

ben500

socrates wrote: »

I give up on this thread!

I suspected they had broken the panel to gain entry having forgotten their keys - the fact that they would not get a crime reference number in my mind confirmed things.

The fact that they agreed to pay without any fuss also told me that something was not right.

If you look at my original answer to the OP - my advice was pay for the damage yourself or claim from the insurance.

The fact the tenant was reluctant to report the incident is of no consequence, you as the LL have suffered the loss not them and as such it is your responsibility to report the crime to the police and obtain the required crime ref no to satisfy your subsequent claim to your insurers, I suspect you already know this though and in an effort to avoid an increase in premium have conned your tenants into coughing up on your behalf. That's maybe just my cynical nature but as several LL have already confirmed (Those responsible ones aware of their obligations) you should never have approached your tenants for recovery of your loss. I've no doubt you will come back with another "modified" response to explain why you didn't.

ben500

Randal wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, as the landlord, I have already had the window replaced on the property. But someone recently did raise the point to me as to who was responsible for costs, and hence I raised the point here to clarify for myself.

Another interesting point that seems to have arisen here with some of the discussions is with regards to the issue of if the tenant can be liable to a break in 'repairs' when they smash a window to get in after forgetting their keys. At another property I rent out I did have such a tenant who decided the kick out the cat flap from the back door and then cut a large hole in the bottom panel so that he could climb in to get his spare keys.

I just happened to be in the area a few weeks later and attended the property with my agents for a mid term inspection and noticed this bin liner (yes, really secure!!) taped up over the hole. When I asked about it, his wife who was there at the time told me what had happened and said that the would fix it. However, when we put it on the inspection report and sent a copy to them, the husband saw it and tried to claim that it was because of a break in at the property and wanted me as the landlord to pay for the damage, and for some items that were apparently 'stolen' as a result.

Needless to say I didn't, and 6 months later when they left, the hole was still there, so we had it repaired with some of his deposit.

You didn't determine your responsibilities with this earlier incident? Interesting that again you modify your story in response to comments to justify your lack of responsibility. Seems to be a common trait amongst errant landlords, I suspect a symptom of the recent buy to let klondyke type gold rush. A pity you didn't pay more attention to your responsibilities when securing your mortgages.

PS to those LL posting who are aware of their responsibilities and obligations I would like to say it is refreshing to see how many you number, I have yet to encounter such a LL but you restore my hope.