Made redundant for refusing 3 day week, and immediately re-engaged on 3 day week?

walmer3

I've just received notification that my employer intends to make me redundant on Tuesday and then offer re-engagement on a 3 day week basis. I'm confused, let me explain!

I've been in discussions since the beginning of December about accepting my employer's proposal of a reduced working week. They wanted to put everyone on a 3 day week (I am currently on 4 days and was due to move up to 5 in April). Everyone else accepted the offer. For a variety of reasons too long and complicated for this post, I have not accepted. I did so knowing that redundancy was a possibility.

I had a redundancy consultation meeting this week and today received by email a letter following that meeting. They say "...we have reluctantly come to the conclusion that your contract will terminate by reason of redundancy. Thereafter, we will be offering you re-engagement on the terms currently on offer, that being a three day week for three days pay."

I've been with the company 10 years so would be entitled to 10weeks notice pr pay in lieu + 10 weeks at £330 (I think) if made redundant. I don't know what my entitlement would be if I accept immediate re-employment? I appreciate they are indicating they don't want to lose me and I know they could do with my involvement. Apart from the risk of losing my continuity of employment if I accept re-engagement, what else would be their motivation in offering re-engagement? (I'm trying to work out what they 'get out of' by doing this, and what I lose!)

I'd be really grateful if someone can comment. Thanks!

judy2357

If I were you I would contact Acas they will be able to give you the facts

Tiggergirl

As it is the role that is made redundant, not the person, I fail to see how you can be made redundant then offered exactly the same job afterwards.

CFC

Tiggergirl wrote: »

As it is the role that is made redundant, not the person, I fail to see how you can be made redundant then offered exactly the same job afterwards.

It is the 4 day role that is being made redundant. There is still a 3 day role available.

Degenerate

CFC wrote: »

It is the 4 day role that is being made redundant. There is still a 3 day role available.

This is correct. They can make a "take it or leave it" offer on this basis - your post is redundant, the 3 day post is yours if you want it. However, this would count as a redeployment and you should retain continuity of employment and all associated rights if you accept the offer.

CFC

Exactly as Degenerate says.

cmn1977

So, if you accept the 3 day week do you still receive the redundancy??

Sorry, I am in the exact situation, have been offered 3 days, down from 5, but as am single will barely be able to pay mortgage and all the bills (yes, am looking into reducing bills too). Redundancy was also thrown into the equation and have been asked what I want (very small company, am only employee). Can I accept the redundancy and then accept drop??

Any help at all would be very grateful!

Thanks
C

ceridwen

I would have thought the legal position would be that if one had a normal 5 day workweek and was then told that they wanted you to do a shorter workweek (on a permanent basis) that they would have no option but to make you redundant/early retired as the case may be - as your (5 day) position would be redundant.

Then - as a totally separate question - they might subsequently (perhaps even literally the day after) take you on for their new job they had created (ie a 4 day one or a 3 day one or whatever as the case may be). But, as one would be in a totally new job (albeit doing the same tasks as previously for the same employer as previously) - then continuity of employment probably wouldnt apply (as it would be a new position). I would think the law would be that your "continuity of employment" had been "bought" in effect by the redundancy payoff from your old position.

I dont know - I'm only going on how I would expect the law to work on this.

I suspect that caselaw hasnt yet been established as to what exactly happens legally if an employer wishes to make you redundant from your old job and immediately take you on again for a new one (with shorter hours).

I can only speak for myself here and say that if my employer wanted to cut my workweek - then I would insist that it was a redundancy and I was to be paid my redundancy money. I might - or might not - subsequently apply for the new (shorter hours) job. In my own case personally - I wouldnt ask for the new job (as I am a full-time worker ....no discussion about it). I can appreciate some other people are in a worse position than myself.

Are there any legal bods on here that can clarify the legal position on this?

Of course - that then raises another legal question - at what point does a shortening of one's hours turn from temporary to permanent? It makes sense for any employee that is threatened with a temporary cut in hours to get a letter stating exactly how long this "temporary" cut in hours will be for - in order to hold onto your right to the full-time job and the full amount of redundancy pay if you subsequently lose your job.

LittleVoice

ceridwen wrote: »

Then - as a totally separate question - they might subsequently (perhaps even literally the day after) take you on for their new job they had created (ie a 4 day one or a 3 day one or whatever as the case may be). But, as one would be in a totally new job (albeit doing the same tasks as previously for the same employer as previously) - then continuity of employment probably wouldnt apply (as it would be a new position).

If that were the case, the clock would start ticking again from zero on continuity every time someone was promoted or moved sideways in an organisation. And of course it doesn't, we continue to have continuity of employment even when moving between different companies within the same group.

ceridwen

Thanks for that.....then I guess that means we could "have our cake and eat it" then??? - ie get made redundant from the old position (ie the full-time one) and bank the redundancy payment - and then get taken on for the new position (ie the part-time one) - AND keep our "continuity of employment"??

Am I interpreting what you say aright? Then that would, in effect, mean we could choose to "swop jobs" and take the redundancy payoff as being "compensation" money for having swopped to the worse-paid "new" job - as an alternative to exercising our right just to be made redundant end of story (because our job - ie the old full-time one - had gone).?



...hmmm....goes off wondering what the chances are that I might get my employer to make me redundant from my present job.....start taking the pension that would be due (as I'm in my 50s) and then come back to work for them only a couple of days a week, telling them that I still have that "many years of service" behind me that I currently have?....

cmn1977

So, I can accept redundancy and then accept the 3 day week, if I don't have luck elsewhere? Do I still get 10 weeks notice or pay in lieu of notice? could the 3 day week start now? If it's 10 weeks notice, then I work 5 days for the 10 weeks? Sorry, it's a bit confusing!

Thanks
C